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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon Update

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Not trying to pick a fight here Rama and I'm also not sure where this conversation is going. RED is unlike most companies in this sector, and have gotten here because of lofty dreams, but let's not forget they have also proven themselves to deliver the goods. Admittedly, they're alway late. But RED has loyal customers who will wait because it always payoff... now that is definitely rare in our times.


Rama Prasad said:
OK. I was little bit harsh in my earlier comment...

But think about it - If Apple or any other public company have faltered like this in their product release timelines then what would have been the drops in their stock price during all the excuses in the past one month or so. Other tech companies are so concerned and less transparent becos most of them are public and they have to answer their stockholders and board members for every mistakes like these... Red being private and being in the business (since Red one) for 6+ yrs should act a little more matured on what facts to release and what not too...

There is not a single footage yet from their future flagship product, but their existing bread winners have fallen more than half the price, there by killing any rental market they might have had during these days... And you are saying all these delays are due to manufacturing issues... Hard to Believe Bob!
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Bob Gundu said:
Not trying to pick a fight here Rama and I'm also not sure where this conversation is going. RED is unlike most companies in this sector, and have gotten here because of lofty dreams, but let's not forget they have also proven themselves to deliver the goods. Admittedly, they're alway late. But RED has loyal customers who will wait because it always payoff... now that is definitely rare in our times.
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I'm in an interesting situation here. I actually HOPE that Red is late in delivering the Dragon and Redrocket-X. Currently, I have enough disposable funds for the Epic Dragon, but not the Redrocket. I'm hoping I can work my a$$ off and pull in enough funds for the rocket before it comes out, while I can still get the pre-order discount
 
Actually I loved the whole whole factory at NAB13, cause it build the impression that RED would upgrade the cameras within the time period of NAB13. But now no cameras have been upgraded, the whole factory at NAB13 raises alot of questions.

1 Who's camera were getting upgraded (from the pictures it looks like alot of cameras?
2 If I was at NAB13, could I have brought my camera and got on Q and dumped the camera to them?
3 If upgrading is not ready, what were they doing?

Sorry Dragon is a very important update for RED epic, this is making me nervous.
 
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charles lim yi yong said:
Actually I loved the whole whole factory at NAB13, cause it build the impression that RED would upgrade the cameras within the time period of NAB13. But now no cameras have been upgraded, the whole factory at NAB13 raises alot of questions.

1 Who's camera were getting upgraded (from the pictures it looks like alot of cameras?
2 If I was at NAB13, could I have brought my camera and got on Q and dumped the camera to them?
3 If upgrading is not ready, what were they doing?

Sorry Dragon is a very important update for RED epic, this is making me nervous.
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Why nervous?
 
I would rather red take their time to get things perfect, rather than to rush their product. Red has a lot of competition now. The Dragon sensor will hopefully put the Epic at the top of the list in terms of Dynamic Range, Color reproduction (most important in my opinion), Signal to Noise ratio, sensitivity.

I've alway been curious on how red approaches their color science. I feel like they approach in a very mathematical way rather than an aesthetic approach. I recently shot with an Arri Alexa for a music video. And as much as I love my Red, I looked at the images produced right out of the camera and thought "Wow those colors are nice".

I'm well aware that .R3D's have all the potential to look just as good or better than the Arri colors look right out of the camera, but I am no colorist. I know if it were myself I would be looking for some of the best "Artists" in the world to help my Color "Scientists" get the color dead on and ascetically pleasing right out of the gate.

So again, take your time RED. I've barely pushed the MX :)
 
Joseph, for many it's a very good thing that Red's raw is actually raw (ie no built in non-defeatable curves and color profiles and even sometimes baked-in white balance that almost everyone else does).

I agree with you that they should probably build a few "looks" for people that don't want to deal with that, though.
 
Less panic, more patience.

It's coming folks. Red has clearly and openly explained the delay.

Red upgrading bodies on the show floor was legit, those weren't chocolate covered cameras. And keep in mind nobody else offers this upgrade path mentality.
 
Peter Majtan said:
Ivan, with all due respect in this context the grammar made all the difference. With the power supplies having been redesigned we are simply looking at two weeks from the 4/27 date (less then a week now) and as such could feasibly expect to see Dragon imagery and "normal mortal's" cameras being upgraded in this month. The past tense signifies that they have found the problem AND solved it. If we were however in the "redesigning stage" - that would mean they are still looking into finding the solution to the problem, which would precede any actual manufacturing of a replacement parts. This would mean possible several months of delays. I was not picking on anyone's grammar per say - my English isn't native either - I simply wanted this information to be clarified as we have seen on a number of occasions in the past such a (even unintentional) info becoming the seed of FUD waves all over the Internet. RED is now being watched more closely then ever...

P
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Peter. Relax. Calm blue ocean :)
 
Ivan Kovax said:
Peter. Relax. Calm blue ocean :)
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I would thought by now you will know I am relaxed. Most of my posts here are done with a grin on my face. I think it comes down to my English being "too direct" (similar in the way German English is). I still remember Jarred telling me he used to think I am some weirdo based solely on my posts on the forum - until he met me in person...

The irony - as you can see - is that many others here are actually loosing their cool and adding potentially misleading info to the mix is really not helping...

PS: For me it's the "deep green forest" that does it, not the "calm blue ocean"... :D
 
Thankfully I´m in no hurry to upgrade (we will do though) as our EPIC is just that, EPIC, as it is right now. I do understand people that are eagerly awaiting the update though. Specially if you have projects that can benefit greatly from the new sensor.
I shoot a lot of daylight exteriors, like action sports, so the EPIC is perfect for us as is. ( Can always do with higher framerate at higher resolution though)
Coming back from a shoot with a lot of overcast days I´m just amazed of how much info the R3D´s contain. I can easily pull out texture and nuances in the clouds that on the 5D MKIII we also used is just pure white (same goes for details in snow).
So unless you really need the Dragon, just enjoy what you got for now.
 
charles lim yi yong said:
Actually I loved the whole whole factory at NAB13, cause it build the impression that RED would upgrade the cameras within the time period of NAB13. But now no cameras have been upgraded, the whole factory at NAB13 raises alot of questions.

1 Who's camera were getting upgraded (from the pictures it looks like alot of cameras?
2 If I was at NAB13, could I have brought my camera and got on Q and dumped the camera to them?
3 If upgrading is not ready, what were they doing?

Sorry Dragon is a very important update for RED epic, this is making me nervous.
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1. It was a lot of cameras. Maybe 30 form my casual viewing at the booth. They wouldn't say who's camera's, but I personally know many of the original RED owners, the first adopters, and none of their equipment was included in the NAB clean room. My speculation, the cameras were company cameras from RED.

2. No, you could not have brought your camera and upgraded it.

3. At best they were changing the parts that were actually ready for the new cameras. At worst they were simply putting on a show for the audience as to how much work goes into the build process. My guess is that it was something in between.


Dragon will come, but since no one has seen a single frame I am gonna bet actual orders happen in the fall for a Jan-Feb 14 delivery. Similar to Scarlet's release. Hopefully I'm wrong...but...
 
With so much riding on this, it's no surprise that RED is waiting until they have an absolutely amazing working camera to release images and video from. If the power supply was recently isolated to be the cause of noise issues, then when they get the parts from manufacturing... they will then have working cameras to field test...

the pictures of the lizard from the sensor test sold me. that's all i needed to see....

working in the space industry and the robotics field has taught me many lessons... a functioning prototype does not guarantee a functioning production unit.

we all saw what happened with the Black Magic Cinema Camera supply chain issues... this isn't even something of that magnitude... it's an actual design correction.... troubleshooting and debugging takes time...

in the end... these are cameras... they're AWESOME cameras... but... they are just cameras... we all here, in some form or another, make our living/augment our living with them... they are the tools of our trade.... however... they are just tools...

I can't wait for one... wether or not we'll be able to afford it, that's a different story... but... for now... the anticipation is palpable...

but... since both Jim and Jarrod have been active on this forum with updating us... it's an enjoyable anticipation.

I imagine there are some of you on this forum that have serious deadlines and are waiting to get this camera in your hands to start meeting those deadlines... your anticipation is probably much less enjoyable than the seat that I happen to be in.

i wouldn't mind a realistic estimate on when they will be shipping new dragon cameras.... a date that they are shooting for... subject to change of course.. but... a realistic date...

chances are we'll have a dragon in our hands LONG before we have a Mac Pro with thunderbolt... that's an issue that i've been ranting about for over a year... and will continue to be impatient about until I have one on my desk... :)
 
Jared already posted there was a delay with the new power board, but everything else is ready to go.
 
Shiblon Wixom said:
Jared already posted there was a delay with the new power board, but everything else is ready to go.
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Two calls to Red, Irvine-both responders stated that the Color Science was being "worked on." YMMV

Thank you very much

fury
 
As long as I don't have a $5000 deposit sitting for a year and a half, I'm good. They can release it when its ready and I'll be a buyer. I would however like to see some video shot with it before I make that purchase. Is that asking too much??
 
No deposit necessary. Just get on the list.

Lee Dashiell said:
As long as I don't have a $5000 deposit sitting for a year and a half, I'm good. They can release it when its ready and I'll be a buyer. I would however like to see some video shot with it before I make that purchase. Is that asking too much??
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