Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon Update

Status
Not open for further replies.
Umm I'm kinda following you on this theory but still doesn't make alot of sense to me. Even Jim has said that now with 6K the 4K box is overflowing, meaning now spatially with a 6K sensor we're getting a TRUE 4K image.
Once you shoot 6K and down rez it to a 4K master using Resolve or Premiere or whatever, wouldn't it look EXACTLY the same as if the camera just did that
when the footage was recorded to a card? Come on make post production easier on us guys that don't have blazing fast systems.

[ edit ... also RED's approach removes spatial aliasing in the form of a Moiré patterns, while sampling has a ton of aliasing issues]

I don't know how the sampling works, but when you down rez to make a 4K master your not adding these artifacts, so why would the camera add them if
it did the same thing?
 
I thought 5K was the key to 4K?

Now it's 6K? Or is it 8K?

Maybe 4 years from now, we'll find out that only 12K can produce the best 4K?

See my confusion?
 
michael zaletel said:
I thought 5K was the key to 4K?

Now it's 6K? Or is it 8K?

Maybe 4 years from now, we'll find out that only 12K can produce the best 4K?

See my confusion?
Click to expand...

I think some folks are looking at this rather linearly and to me that's not the right way to look at Epic Dragon or Scarlet Dragon.

The "best" 4K finish from these cameras will come from 5K, 5.5K, and 6K material. You'll be able to pull off pretty nice 4K to 4K as well, just like Scarlet and essentially the Red One. On top of that, due to REDCODE's wavelet compression scheme, you'll be able to upscale 3K to 4K with decent results when you need to tap into those higher frame rates.

Personally if your focus is a finished 4K image I'd avoid shooting 2K and below, but that's still not the whole answer.

Aesthetically you may be after more of S16 look and shooting in the 3K to 2K realm will create not only that approximate image plane, but similar resolving abilities to S16 film.

If you are one of those who's still focused on 1080p delivery, well 6K-2K. Go nuts.


This isn't a question that has one answer because Dragon isn't designed as a single answer device. It's designed to create great 4K images in a variety of ways. Once we all get it in our hands we'll be able to explore that concept fully.
 
Phil Holland said:
This isn't a question that has one answer because Dragon isn't designed as a single answer device. It's designed to create great 4K images in a variety of ways. Once we all get it in our hands we'll be able to explore that concept fully.
Click to expand...
It's a really careful designed multi-purpose tool for 4k-motion and highres-stills, DSMC! ;). Everyone who thinks the added resolution is just that, needs to rethink. Dragon adds "only" 1k on a bigger sensor-area, this is not mega-pixel-craziness, it's really thought through. Bigger sensor, only slightly smaller pixels = better lens usage (especially on FF-lenses), of course a new look, better options for stills, re-framing and stabilization (together with those gyros) and all that with still enough data to resolve real 4k-output, or if you shoot 6k without re-framing you can go 8k with "better-than-4k"-results later...

Like Phil said, you just have to see the possibilities and look behind simple 6k>4k-logic, this sensor with its 6k-mode gives us a lot of them.
 
I am very anxious to see new images with the new sensor. This is my first EPIC camera and every day that passes I am sure it was the best choice we could have made buying a EPIC-X. Next step is to upgrade to the fantastic DRAGON sensor.

Tks guys.
 
The need to redesign the power adapters for the noise is just for the AC wall adapters?
Or is there a need for a completely new battery system for Dragon..?
 
PatrickFaith said:
So basically RED will allow you to shoot at all times at "6k", but if all you really just want 4k you just increase the compression ratio
Click to expand...
Now, see, this is one of those things which is so damned simple that it probably would have never occurred to me (and this is why I spend time on forums). I wonder how many folks think that Sony has one up on RED, simply because on the new Sonys you can choose your resolution. It's like RED was a step ahead of everyone else before it even needed to be. :-)
 
Jason Wingrove said:
No. last we were told Red is working on redesigning parts.
No cameras are being upgraded.
Click to expand...

Do you mind pointing to the source of this info?

Cause the last I have seen posted by Jarred was that:
- sensors and ASICS are all finished and good to go
- all other HW parts are also finished and good to go
- the only thing they were waiting on was the new color science (firmware) to be fine-tuned

Did I miss anything?

P
 
Hi Clint, so you are asking, why not downrez to 4K within the camera already? In formal words one says the operators of debayering and downrezzing do not commutate: That is, the outcome of "first debayer then downrez" is not equal to "first downrez then debayer".

Second, if one debayered and then downrezzed from 6K to 4K within the camera, one would not only loose all the advantages of raw images but also increased the size of the files.
 
Lol. Peter, read Jarred's first post of this thread again.

Peter Majtan said:
Do you mind pointing to the source of this info?

Cause the last I have seen posted by Jarred was that:
- sensors and ASICS are all finished and good to go
- all other HW parts are also finished and good to go
- the only thing they were waiting on was the new color science (firmware) to be fine-tuned

Did I miss anything?

P
Click to expand...
 
Bob Gundu said:
Lol. Peter, read Jarred's first post of this thread again.
Click to expand...

Which is what I did. It clearly says everything (even the new RED ROCKET-X) is ready with the exception of the color science. Also RED was quite publicly upgrading some Epics to Dragon at NAB (most likely destined for the likes of SS or PJ). This is why I am confused by Jason's "Red is working on redesigning parts" - which would implicate a major delay, as well as "No cameras are being upgraded"...

:sifone: Peter

EDIT - note that the power supplies "have been redesigned" is in past tense...
 
Peter Majtan said:
Which is what I did. It clearly says everything (even the new RED ROCKET-X) is ready with the exception of the color science. Also RED was quite publicly upgrading some Epics to Dragon at NAB (most likely destined for the likes of SS or PJ). This is why I am confused by Jason's "Red is working on redesigning parts" - which would implicate a major delay, as well as "No cameras are being upgraded"...

:sifone: Peter

EDIT - note that the power supplies "have been redesigned" is in past tense...
Click to expand...
I think the important point was that the re-designed parts would be coming in from manufacturing in a couple of weeks. My guess is they would check for quality control and do some testing before starting the upgrade process.

"its all down to the bottom end noise that was found in the power supplies, which have been redesigned and we should see those come in from manufacturing in a couple weeks."

EDIT: And I'm also guessing the ones updated at NAB didn't pass muster and will have to be sent through the process again when the new power supplies arrive.
 
Last edited:
Peter Majtan said:
Which is what I did. It clearly says everything (even the new RED ROCKET-X) is ready with the exception of the color science. Also RED was quite publicly upgrading some Epics to Dragon at NAB (most likely destined for the likes of SS or PJ). This is why I am confused by Jason's "Red is working on redesigning parts" - which would implicate a major delay, as well as "No cameras are being upgraded"...

:sifone: Peter

EDIT - note that the power supplies "have been redesigned" is in past tense...
Click to expand...

I love debates over grammar and context.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top