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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon uncaged...

Blair S. Paulsen said:
...

Yes, content is king - technology without vision and talent is pointless - stipulated. That said, I've been fortunate enough to capture some amazing images over the years, some of which make me cringe years later due to the technical limitations of the medium I was working in that day. My enthusiasm for Dragon might not match Eryc's ;-), but I am very pumped to think that everything I shoot the rest of my life will stand on its artistic merits without the technical equivalent of an asterisk.

In terms of what matters to me, that's a huge gift - sincere thanks to Jim and the RedTeam.

Cheers - #19
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I recently dug up some old SD footage recorded to VHS. I remember when I finished that project how proud I was of my accomplishment. I only watched a few minutes before stopping the tape player and putting the VHS cassette away. Watching it again just ruined the feel good memory of what I had been so proud of before.

+1 on what you said.
 
Phil Holland said:
Well I'll jump in on this one. In terms of image performance and what's better at what temp "exactly", well I know I haven't been around it enough to know anything really.

Now on to black shading and high temperature operation.

Chris's shoot was outside and in the desert somewhere between 98 and 105 degrees. The Dragon handled that just fine.

We did fire off a black shade in probably the strangest place that a Red camera has ever been black shaded, which if I recall correctly was in the 9-ish minute realm. Nice and snappy really.

Theoretically, and perhaps this might be my opinion as well, between new fans and fan algorithms with the added sensor heater tossed in there; there might be less reason to black shade "that much" if the sensor temperature is so regulated by the harmony of all that tech. And honestly, I don't need to black shade all that often now.
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correct. You don't need to, but if you have the time it doesn't hurt to do a black shade if you can in new environments.. even if the differences in terms of image quality are so small you can't really tell.

And remember when you do blackshade.. do it after the camera warms up in the environment . if you do it at the start of the day in an air conditioned truck, then take it out into a 100 degree desert, you kinda defeat the purpose ;)
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
In camera world RED is indeed making history, and, as others have noted, we are riding on the shoulders of giants and (tortured analogy alert) shooting the curl.

When confronted by the realization that the only limitation is your talent, then you get to find out just how much you believe in yourself - and that's scary territory for most of us.

Yes, content is king - technology without vision and talent is pointless - stipulated. That said, I've been fortunate enough to capture some amazing images over the years, some of which make me cringe years later due to the technical limitations of the medium I was working in that day. My enthusiasm for Dragon might not match Eryc's ;-), but I am very pumped to think that everything I shoot the rest of my life will stand on its artistic merits without the technical equivalent of an asterisk.

In terms of what matters to me, that's a huge gift - sincere thanks to Jim and the RedTeam.

Cheers - #19
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Love you, too, Blair. Hahaha. I could not have said it better. I have been dreaming of this day since 1999. I could almost tell you the day -- I was just departing a certain SoCal institution of cinematic learning. I had "crazy" thoughts about what should be done to revolutionize filmmaking.

And at the end of it all, once all the technical hurdles were felled, we would be left with one thing: democratization. Sure, this is an extremely subjective art-form, but things are already changing for the better. Stories will be told that never would have seen the light of day. For example, I would LOVE to see a film about the struggle of the Marikana Miners. From their perspective. Not from Robert Downey, Jr.'s perspective as the punchy reporter covering the events. I'm not trying to make Stander. I want to see the struggle inside the camps -- to impart that desperation in a very real, unflinching sense, to the world. Now, a filmmaker could conceivably do it on their own. We have palm-able 35mm motion picture cameras, with unlimited spools of film, enough sensitivity and DR to render by candlelight, and it's all recorded as metadata. Yeah, I'm EXCITED.

I have been fortunate enough to usher projects through some of the most posh studios, and finishing rooms on this planet -- literally. Major studios. But I couldn't help but feel like I might never have the opportunity to push my own projects through those hallowed walls. Irrespective of how creative you may be, you're only doing what you're doing at this moment, but luckily "fortune shines on the bold." Ha. Obviously, not everyone gets to construct films at that level, but the point is that now we don't have to. RED gave me the courage to take a leap of faith years ago, and now we laugh about being able to post features from our bedrooms. Could other situations, or cameras have served as the impetus for my actions? Sure. But they didn't.

Anyway, that's part of my little narrative and why Jim, et al, are the COOLEST peeps on the planet for me. Yes, I'm ramped up. But shouldn't we all be? Plus, these guys have done nothing shy of show us all genuine altruism. They're real people. Hardworking individuals, fighting the good fight and fulfilling the impossible dream. That's why things can get a little heated on here at times. No one is going to waltz in this house, start verbally abusing friends and think they are going to walk out of it. :)
 
Jarred Land said:
And remember when you do blackshade.. do it after the camera warms up in the environment . if you do it at the start of the day in an air conditioned truck, then take it out into a 100 degree desert, you kinda defeat the purpose ;)
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Earlier in the day we waited to get it up to temp in the dry desert heat and placed it inside a large beat up freight container at the junkyard (for the darkness, but pretty much desert hot).

I would say this could have been considered a moderate extreme condition (we didn't even shade the camera during shooting) and the camera did great.
 
Jarred Land said:
correct. You don't need to, but if you have the time it doesn't hurt to do a black shade if you can in new environments.. even if the differences in terms of image quality are so small you can't really tell.

And remember when you do blackshade.. do it after the camera warms up in the environment . if you do it at the start of the day in an air conditioned truck, then take it out into a 100 degree desert, you kinda defeat the purpose ;)
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Exactly the tact I recently took. Blackshaded in the AM before start. Then later in the day we went from air conditioned comfort to sweltering, desert inferno in a few steps. EPIC was shading on the camera cart once it was up to temp outside. Approx 12 minutes later, we were back up on sticks and tweaking. God love it. And thank you. No issues whatsoever. No fan "problems." No ice packs. I can't even recall if we flagged cam -- I think just slight shade. And we were shooting dialogue -- long take interviews at that.

Just flawless performance.
 
Christopher Probst said:
Current versions of RedCineX will not open Dragon r3ds, so that won't be possible for the immediate future.
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You do understand that this is always the case when RED upgrades sensors, so no worries... I am sure Jarred and the Team will take great care of you, otherwise you never would have gotten the camera to test with in the first place. The whole "... won't be possible for the immediate future." is jumping the gun and how the negative rumors get started. Just my 2 cents from first hand experience in the past. Jarred also always had a solution just one email away.
 
Brian Boyer said:
I know Christopher's going to clarify his statement but I'm going to go ahead and say I think you misunderstood his meaning. I'm sure HE has access to a version of Redcine-X that will read the r3ds, otherwise he'd have footage that was unusable.

What he was saying was, until a new version of RCX gets released that does read Dragon files, the r3ds from his shoot and others won't do anyone else any good. He was responding to people who wanted r3ds to play with...like yesterday.

Dragon is set to arrive in September and a new RCX release may take that long to show up. Or, it could be 2 weeks from now, but probably not tomorrow.

That was my take-away from his comment.
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I am not misunderstanding anything... I am just spelling it out for those that like to pick on RED. Just clarifying things. Cool?
 
Chris McKechnie said:
Dragon's fire will reach so far and to so many things, turning RED's competition to ash. Who said 4K is the new standard? 6K baby.
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I think resolution is an overstated factor here. What most working DPs, including me, actually care about is dynamic range and color - these both appear to be stellar on the Dragon. Faster blackshade that needs to be refreshed less often is also very, very important. Honestly 5K was more than enough, 6K annoying. I have zero interest in "future proofing' the music videos, fashion videos and commercials we shoot, which have a 2 year shelf life at the very most - 5K is even enough resolution for stills, and pushes the limits of most of our preferred lenses. So 6K is of no interest whatsoever to me, nor would I imagine to many other redusers.

Frankly I am glad that Red is now talking more about other factors, because my clients could care less about 6K either, but do want the best color rendition possible and the most trouble-free on-set use for a 1080p master.
 
jacob.schwarz said:
Phil do you have any .r3d that you would mind sharing from you low light test.
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The Dragon r3ds are not compatible with the current version of RedCine-X. Only the beta testers have everything needed to view the files. Now a request for a frame export in RedLogfilm with no curve/LUT could be -- illuminating.
 
I almost interviewed for a feature today that used 23+ cameras(2nd unit alone!) last go-around(it is a sequel) I attended. Could be the same as JJ mentioned! Here's to hoping so! Congratulations for whatever movie it is! Beware Panavision, beware THE DRAGON.
 
Rank resolution where ye will, I'd wager its in most people's top 5.

If your point is that in the current distribution and display environment the resolution box is already checked by the MX and then some - OK.

IMO better S/N ratio is the holy grail of digital sensor systems, so if the Dragon can add 10db or more vs MX it's worth the cost right there.

FWIW most empirical studies show color rendition as the most significant attribute when participants are polled about their perceptions of image quality. It is my belief that working with a sensor designed from the ground up for digital cinema will give Graeme a RAW (sic) data set from which his algorithms can generate purer colors. This expectation is my number one reason for believing that Dragon will meaningfully advance the state of the art.

Disclaimer: I really like highly detailed wide shots so I'm actually pretty geeked up over the 6K thing, but I do understand that's a personal problem for which Dragon therapy is my only hope ;-)

Cheers - #19
 
Tom Gleeson said:
If Dragon R3D do not play in RedCineX are they not going to play in Resolve, Baselight, Premiere Pro etc. Are they all going to need a software revision? Hope not.
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I'm not a coder but AFAIK an updated plug-in should be all that's needed. Hopefully by now RED and the major NLE/DI/etc vendors have done enough of these revisions that it will be a relatively fast and painless process. If not, somebody's got some 'splainin' to do ;-) (oblique reference to the fact that RED Studios Hollywood was once the soundstage where "I Love Lucy" was shot).

Cheers - #19
 
jacob.schwarz said:
Phil do you have any .r3d that you would mind sharing from you low light test.
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Very likely the first .R3Ds from Dragon you'll see will come from Red and there will be a "crispy fresh" version of Red Cine-X Pro to accompany it.

I would personally expect to see a .jpg (which we have, but from an early camera and color science) or perhaps a .tif if Jarred is feeling generous :)


Tom Gleeson said:
Are they all going to need a software revision? Hope not.
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From what I understand Dragon has new blood flowing beneath it's REDCODE, mainly in the form of color science. Importers, plugins, etc. will need to update. Hopefully, because this isn't the first time around the block it will be a speedier concept than in the past. That's going to primarily be up to the 3rd party folks once they get the details.
 
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