Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon thoughts

Tom Lowe

Tom Lowe

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
8,520
Reaction score
1
Points
0
After a week with Dragon, here are some thoughts and observations:

* Dragon is a natural progression from Epic MX. The camera looks and weighs the same, and operates the same. If you know how to use an Epic, then you know how to use a Dragon.

* The biggest difference you will notice when you first fire up the camera is that you will be able to see new things in the frame -- details in the shadows, skies that should be blown out, but are not. Things like streetlights are handled much better by this sensor.

* Once you start shooting 6K, going back to shooting 4K feels like a massive compromise. When you switch Dragon from 6K to 4K, for example, you can notice a massive quality difference, even on a small monitor. Shooting 4K Bayer feels like shooting 1080p to me now. I don't want to do it.

* Once DPs and directors start looking at actual 6K frames shot on good glass, there will be no going back to 2K or 1080p. Those days are over. Shoot Dragon or shoot film, but don't shoot 1080p. 1080p is a big mistake that will be apparent in a few years when people want to watch their favorite content on their 4K monitors and TVs. They will be out of luck with anything shot 2k or 1080p. Uprezzing is bullshit. Get it in camera.

* Red-dot back reflections seems to be gone.

* On Epic I never shoot over ISO 1000 in extreme low light. On Dragon, I am comfortable shooting ISO 2500, maybe ISO 3200 in extreme low light.

* If there is one downside to the Dragon, to me, it is the high compression required to shoot at high framerates. I realize that Graeme is a genius and that compression technology gets better and better each year, but I get nervous when compression ratios go above 10:1.
 
Tom

When you look at the OLPF is is Red like on the MX? Just wondering if that's got anything to do with the lack of red dot grid at small apertures (basically like a laser beam reflecting back and forth off the back of the iris and the OPLF.).

Thanks
 
Thanks

Thanks

Hi ,

Thanks for the info....would like to see some great shots of Srilanka coming out of the Dragon.....

Harcharan
 
Appreciate the insight Tom. Adds to the excitement - the anticipation - of when my camera is upgraded.

I'm more than a bit curious about IR filtration requirements for the Dragon versus the current EPIC sensor. Did you form an opinion yet?

Also - is there any indication that longer exposures will be possible with the Dragon? I realize that feature (if and when) would be part of a build - but does the sensor handle low light scenes in a manner that opens that door?

Who better to ask?
Thanks again...
 
Thank you very much for this information. Have a great time shooting there!
 
Tom what do you think is the rated ISO dragon? I know people are saying 2000 or 250-2000. But do you have a confirmation on which one?
 
I'm not sure about native ISO. Jarred would know best. I kept it set to ISO 1000 most of the time.
 
Tom,

How many stops would you say we gain in low light situations?

Tom Lowe said:
After a week with Dragon, here are some thoughts and observations..... ...each year, but I get nervous when compression ratios go above 10:1.
Click to expand...
 
thanks for the shared info
 
Tom,

Thank you for all your tests and comments. I too was concerned about the high compression ratio on high speed and that is what I shot so much at 60 and 100 fps on my test. But even standing up close to the 4K monitor I cannot discern compression artifacts as I could on the Epic MX.

Also I know everyone wants an answer about native ISO. I think one has to do their own tests to determine the sweet spot. As we did with film stocks Kodak gave us a general idea of ASA/ISO and we then did tests with the lab for the film and we would vary up to 2/3 stop either way.

It might all depend on what your deliverables are going to be. If it is for an IMAX screen then you might be wary of artifacts AND low light noise.

IMHO
 
Peter Lyons Collister said:
Tom,

Thank you for all your tests and comments. I too was concerned about the high compression ratio on high speed and that is what I shot so much at 60 and 100 fps on my test. But even standing up close to the 4K monitor I cannot discern compression artifacts as I could on the Epic MX.

Also I know everyone wants an answer about native ISO. I think one has to do their own tests to determine the sweet spot. As we did with film stocks Kodak gave us a general idea of ASA/ISO and we then did tests with the lab for the film and we would vary up to 2/3 stop either way.

It might all depend on what your deliverables are going to be. If it is for an IMAX screen then you might be wary of artifacts AND low light noise.

IMHO
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update Peter. Loved your test.
 
Tom Lowe said:
* If there is one downside to the Dragon, to me, it is the high compression required to shoot at high framerates. I realize that Graeme is a genius and that compression technology gets better and better each year, but I get nervous when compression ratios go above 10:1.
Click to expand...

Is it possible to shoot with lower compression on the 512GB cards?
 
I'm not sure where the compression bottleneck lies. Someone from Red would have to answer that. Is it a limitation of the processors in the camera, or the speed of the media?

I did not do a stress test of the compression at high frame rates, so I have no idea if it's a problem. Best way to do that would be to take a camera to a forest filled with ferns and blowing leaves and tree bark -- and try to bust the codec.
 
Any thoughts on battery drain compared to the MX? I've heard say that Dragon runs hotter which to me means more energy.
Waddyatink?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top