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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DRAGON SENSOR yes or no... now or later

The Honey Badger

The Honey Badger

According to Jim's metaphor about Dagon sensor upgrade as the Honey Badger of all digital sensors the competition should be very scared.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

MUST WATCH: Honey Badger-The Most Fearless Animal on Earth

The Honey Badger: It's a badass animal.

"As tough as a Honey Badger." - South African saying

The most vicious, brutal, and throat-crushingly hardcore mammals to ever nut-punch a lion unconscious by swinging a couple King Cobras

around like a pair of serpentine nunchucks – the African Honey Badger

(also known as the Ratel that has shown itself to be a most cost-effective system in terms of both operational purpose and cost.).
 
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I've never seen that video before. I've been laughing all night. Thanks Jim. :}
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Considering a few "Consumer" cameras have more dynamic range than Epic now I think waiting 2 years to release a new sensor would be madness.
Click to expand...
The Canon 5D or 1 DS MKIII don't hold up against the Epic at all in terms of dynamic range. I was testing today shooting a cityscape against a light blue sky, with a jungle in the foreground. Where the Canon EOS bleached out the skies and lost all the detail in the jungle, the Epic kept both, very clearly. And that was comparing Canon stills against Epic video. Comparing Canon video against the Epic was a no contest.
 
Well, even when downressing to HD or 4K the difference will be huge. The bigger original pixel count will eliminate noise when downsamping. The bigger sensor will also make poor slow speed lenses look like Master primes. So there is more to it than just getting an 8K frame. I think anyone that had a chance would rather rent the Dragon instead of the Epic.
Just as 5K on the Epic looks more... Epic. Than 2k on the epic. For quality photography big sensors has been the strive since celluloid film was invented.

I can only speak for myself, but we now had our epic for about 3 months, the camera is pretty much allready paid off just from what we charge in rental fees. Then we have to take into the account all the projects we have won during this time since we can do quick tests, nice pitches on projects etc.

So if Monstro Dragon comes towards the summer I think we are more than happy to say good bye tho the Mysterium.

In fact we would order the first day it comes out even if it was tomorrow. And I think it would be super good if Red does a "M Dragon" just as the Epic M. In other words a prerelease machined Beta version of the sensor for a premium price.
 
Lee Saxon said:
Disagree. Just because it's not out when they originally thought it'd be out doesn't mean its not years ahead of anyone else.
Click to expand...

Except the mx isn't..


Monstro? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't .. the point is, we don't know?

.. and all that is available is an mx, which I'm sure I'll be able to upgrade pretty soon after recieving and epic.. except I'd rather just buy an epic with a monstro sensor to start with.. so lets hope the upgrade is reasonaby priced (..which i doubt)

I have no expectations on delivery, never have

Anyway, thanks for sharing your wisdom
 
Björn Benckert said:
And I think it would be super good if Red does a "M Dragon" just as the Epic M. In other words a prerelease machined Beta version of the sensor for a premium price.
Click to expand...

I think RED is not making sensor or sensors by itself.

What they can make I would guess is a sort of sensor design and a sketch with a list of features they want to be implemented in their new image sensor design.

RED must talk to its silicon wafer maker or a manufacturer of semiconductor integrated circuits (ICs) on silicon wafers

and after some time that CMOS image sensor maker tell them when the thing (ASIC, sensor, etc...) is ready for a test, etc,...

RED tests that sensor at own RED lab using also its own firmware/software, etc,...

It's takes time and it's a long development with a testing process that can include a lot of phases, stages, experiments, etc,...

Of course there are many manufacturers of CMOS image sensors worldwide and we can just guess which one was chosen by RED.

For example if you would be your own sensor designer than must choose only one sensor maker that can fit to your design and

with that choice of semiconductor integrated circuit or sensor can provide as many features as you wanted be implemented, etc,...

All that means you can't get any time a kind of beta-sensor to purchase before the whole thing (CMOS image sensor that includes A/D, etc,...) is ready for a final (official) production,...
 
Jannard said:
Our job is to give you choices. And choices without you having to buy a new camera.

Jim
Click to expand...

cool!

.. So I will be able to purchase red armour anytime before the end of the 1st year warranty expires as originally planned, and wont be forced to buy or not buy during original purchase on the grounds that "people will forget otherwise".

I find that logic badly flawed, and as a customer, not useful.

You're selling me a beta camera and saying during the purchase phase "do you think it will require many expensive repairs, or not?".. you might as well say "You feeling lucky punk?"

.. actually, I'd like to test the water first.. maybe buy red armour, maybe not.. choice glorious choice

I just paid £342 for a red drive mainboard replacement..

could you please post a list of Epic camera repair prices so I can base my "choices" on something tangible?

.. or is there a lockdown on all forms of useful information leaving Red these days..
 
Mark...as a few people have said here, we hope the new sensor will deliver much much more in ISO low light.

Yes we love the MX but on the landscape of sensor tech right now the sensors coming from the Stills world guys have much better low light capability.
I dont think we need 6 or 8K but I do think the community in about a year or 2 will care about ISO and low light.
I also doubt we will see the new chip shipping any time very soon.

So I love MX , but based on past experience RED will show at NAB, and at IBC and alpha/beta a year later. Which is fine... all good, but that would get the chip to market about when it would need to.

I personally think the only reasons for delay should be implementing more of the EPIC DSMC plan.. I know there is a lot of great stuff - the first of which is playback (Awesome) but we do need a lot of those features (need ...OK would like please) that have been discussed:
- touch canon mount focus
- touch pull focus
- extra modules such as IO
- Extra battery back units
- Pro Redmote
- stills mode on the camera
- FUEL in HDRx
- Click to mark meta data frames when shooting moving for stills highlighting

So to repeat.. Move the MX, but I think sensibly RED will need a new sensor in a year or so - so we'd need to be seeing test bed shots soon for that to happen,
and it would be great to close out the RED modular stuff and the stills stuff ASAP.

Just my 2c - all expressed with a positive (hopefully) point of view

Mike
 
I'd say a 2012 CMOS technology will trump 2-3 year old MX CMOS. And I bet its not costing RED more per sensor. In fact I bet, their yields from the silicon wafers are better now. So, it could make sense to just keep selling the MX sensors, but why not update them to newer technology? Then the experience the get with the new CMOSs in production and out in the world, will roll into the next generation of CMOS sensors.
 
Mike Seymour said:
Mark...as a few people have said here, we hope the new sensor will deliver much much more in ISO low light.

Yes we love the MX but on the landscape of sensor tech right now the sensors coming from the Stills world guys have much better low light capability.
I dont think we need 6 or 8K but I do think the community in about a year or 2 will care about ISO and low light.
I also doubt we will see the new chip shipping any time very soon.

So I love MX , but based on past experience RED will show at NAB, and at IBC and alpha/beta a year later. Which is fine... all good, but that would get the chip to market about when it would need to.

I personally think the only reasons for delay should be implementing more of the EPIC DSMC plan.. I know there is a lot of great stuff - the first of which is playback (Awesome) but we do need a lot of those features (need ...OK would like please) that have been discussed:
- touch canon mount focus
- touch pull focus
- extra modules such as IO
- Extra battery back units
- Pro Redmote
- stills mode on the camera
- FUEL in HDRx
- Click to mark meta data frames when shooting moving for stills highlighting

So to repeat.. Move the MX, but I think sensibly RED will need a new sensor in a year or so - so we'd need to be seeing test bed shots soon for that to happen,
and it would be great to close out the RED modular stuff and the stills stuff ASAP.

Just my 2c - all expressed with a positive (hopefully) point of view

Mike
Click to expand...

Agree...

I'm getting such great pictures from the MX.. then it kills me when the client requests a 720x576 8 bit master ...

But yes.. noiseless low light sensor is always a must. I'll always take what RED give us...
 
Mike Seymour said:
Mark...as a few people have said here, we hope the new sensor will deliver much much more in ISO low light.

Yes we love the MX but on the landscape of sensor tech right now the sensors coming from the Stills world guys have much better low light capability.
I dont think we need 6 or 8K but I do think the community in about a year or 2 will care about ISO and low light.
I also doubt we will see the new chip shipping any time very soon.

So I love MX , but based on past experience RED will show at NAB, and at IBC and alpha/beta a year later. Which is fine... all good, but that would get the chip to market about when it would need to.

I personally think the only reasons for delay should be implementing more of the EPIC DSMC plan.. I know there is a lot of great stuff - the first of which is playback (Awesome) but we do need a lot of those features (need ...OK would like please) that have been discussed:
- touch canon mount focus
- touch pull focus
- extra modules such as IO
- Extra battery back units
- Pro Redmote
- stills mode on the camera
- FUEL in HDRx
- Click to mark meta data frames when shooting moving for stills highlighting

So to repeat.. Move the MX, but I think sensibly RED will need a new sensor in a year or so - so we'd need to be seeing test bed shots soon for that to happen,
and it would be great to close out the RED modular stuff and the stills stuff ASAP.

Just my 2c - all expressed with a positive (hopefully) point of view

Mike
Click to expand...


Sorry for Derailing the thread, but I have to asks do not have the camera in front of me. Is the "click to mark still highlighting function" not there yet? I thought I saw export only maked stills in my redcinexpro...? but I guess that was only for "marked in red cine x pro" then or? I think features like this is probably very easy and pure programing things to implement but the swap sensor thing is a quest that takes a bit more effort and doing so from a different department. or?
 
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