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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon Scarlet upgrade what is your best guess?

as a scarlet #744 owner I was a little concerned for a moment until I thought it through. I even considered going BMC but it's a waste of time, a pocket cinema would be awesome but I have 4K RAW standards since I switched Red.

everyone I've asked who has great relationships with Red knows nothing of Scarlet Dragon; it's been pretty quite for some time now and allot of us are wondering.

if you where smart you would have switched to Epic right at the announcement of Upgrade Program. The reason is you get Epic rates and Epic gigs which will be easier to pay off at the moment plus the benefits of 5K & Hi-Speed. Most producers don't even know what Scarlet is so I lose out to Epic rentals all the time even tho they shoot 4KHD @ 24fps it's crazy. I guess it's marketing kinda like Cooke re-naming the Panchros to S4 mini. It would be cool if Scarlet Dragon was re-named to Epic-S or EPICmini to help with branding. Only camera nerds and Directors know about Dragon sensor so your fine until all the Epic's get Dragonized. All the Scarlet owners that went Epic from the get go are doing well getting ready to go Dragon by end of the year.

I talked to an Epic owner on my last shoot and he said he's on the list and RED is averaging 100 bodies a day. Who knows if it's true and how many people in line.

At the same time I've been seeing allot more F55 out in the wild, some have switched to Sony. They have some big updates coming soon DNxHD & ProRes plus Hi-Speed is making that camera attractive. You can shoot on any codec/resolution the job requires it's pretty nice.

I'm waiting for Scarlet Dragon. I had the honor to DIT some commercials back in Dec and I was sold. The images are f'n amazing plain and simple. No other camera at the moment will give you those images. It's gonna take time which is fine by me, I'm still paying off my lens kit. At this moment $9500 to jump from Scarlet to Epic-X is a hard move thats allot of money to invest in old technology. MX sensor is 4 years old and counting...

NAB should be full of announcements be patient it's around the corner.

Technology does change fast but not as fast as everyone thinks. Just cause a camera is announced doesn't mean it's in the wild. BMC Sony are all releasing cameras with promised specs that don't get firmware updates til months from release/announcement. We're on schedule 2-3 year cycles if not more.
 
I think people is getting tire and other manufactures are moving forward

I know red is a small company in relation with big boys like SONY, PANASONIC, ETC but what I don't understand is: Why with a long line of guys wanting to purchase the Dragon Sensor since last year red haven't been able to delivery the product. I meant COME ON!!! if you need to hire a battalion of temporary workers or outsource part from other manufacturers DO IT but DO IT NOW before is too late.

Black Magic Cinema didn't know anything about cameras 2 years ago now they are mass producing 3 different camera models, I seriously think something is not right with RED, if they suddenly are able delivery some Scarlet Dragons by Mid summer 2014 (Which is a Dream I know ) they will secure the red brand for years to come.
 
Andrey Blanco said:
I think people is getting tire and other manufactures are moving forward

I know red is a small company in relation with big boys like SONY, PANASONIC, ETC but what I don't understand is: Why with a long line of guys wanting to purchase the Dragon Sensor since last year red haven't been able to delivery the product. I meant COME ON!!! if you need to hire a battalion of temporary workers or outsource part from other manufacturers DO IT but DO IT NOW before is too late.

Black Magic Cinema didn't know anything about cameras 2 years ago now they are mass producing 3 different camera models, I seriously think something is not right with RED, if they suddenly are able delivery some Scarlet Dragons by Mid summer 2014 (Which is a Dream I know ) they will secure the red brand for years to come.
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Black Magic may not be a great comparison, considering many people are only NOW receiving their 4K cameras they ordered LAST YEAR AT NAB.

I'm personally ok with RED taking their time to make DRAGON as good as it can be before they step up production. But I can understand others frustration, all the same.
 
I can only hope my Scarlet #1253, which now belongs to RED again, is turned into a beast of a Scarlet-D and sold as BT. I might be tempted to pick it back up myself.

I took such good care of that damn camera. No rentals. Clocked maybe only 150 hours. Perfect condition. I miss it.
 
Josef Gatti said:
I can only hope my Scarlet #1253, which now belongs to RED again, is turned into a beast of a Scarlet-D and sold as BT. I might be tempted to pick it back up myself.

I took such good care of that damn camera. No rentals. Clocked maybe only 150 hours. Perfect condition. I miss it.
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I can understand you, for some reasons i'm not able to trade my Scarlet for an EPIC...

It would be really nice of RED to offer those upgraded BT Scarlets from trade-ins to their original owners first, but i guess this isn't going to happen.
 
Haha - yeah, the pessimists seem to be losing this argument but I doubt they will give up just yet.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Haha - yeah, the pessimists seem to be losing this argument but I doubt they will give up just yet.
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True. Be interesting to see how soon Dragon Scarlets start flying off shelves. Seems some Dragon Scarlets may ship earlier even than some Epic Dragon upgrades...

In general, does feel like things are starting to ramp up...
 
Nick Morrison said:
True. Be interesting to see how soon Dragon Scarlets start flying off shelves. Seems some Dragon Scarlets may ship earlier even than some Epic Dragon upgrades...

In general, does feel like things are starting to ramp up...
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I would also like to know if this is the case...I wouldn't mind grabbing a Scarlet Dragon if it means I can get my hands on it sooner
 
We will see how pessimistic my estimates were. They were made assuming Red would not change. Red has changed in announcing new products with products now in stock. But lets face it, keeping quiet on new product announcements is a lot easier than turning around your manufacturing process.

Red looks like they have come round to the same way of thinking as the NON apologists in regards to their PR announcements. Red, for this nab at least, kept quiet until they had something to ship. That seems to be the case for the switchblade etc. Great progress!!!! Will it last more than one nab? Let's see.

Scarlet Ds are still some time away. The biggest challenge for red will be expanding lines to bring cameras to customers in the ambitious timescales. Will there be further delays? I hope not.

There is a lot be happy for in red changing the way they do PR.


If I am labelled pessimistic so be it(especially when red have taken some of what you guys are calling pessimistic complaints on board). The alternative is to be an unhelpful fanboy apologist.

This nab seems to be a turning point for red. I hope we see this more mature red stick around.
 
I love it... I am not wrong yet, but if it turns out that I am then it is because the world changed because of my criticism; which makes me right after all. I am invincible!! LOL
 
Terry VerHaar said:
I love it... I am not wrong yet, but if it turns out that I am then it is because the world changed because of my criticism; which makes me right after all. I am invincible!! LOL
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"I love it, RED did exactly what I said they wouldn't do and shouldn't do, but it made me right even though I fought them changing every step of the way. I am invincible!"

I would rather be a bit abrasive and annoying to RED and change RED for the better than sit by and let them flounder. The fanboys are doing RED no great service by defending their poor operations. Thankfully RED sees the potential damage to their brand that 6+ month waiting periods for their products cause and didn't listen to those who were practically enthusiastically supporting the delays. For every fan boy who says "keep doing what you're doing and never change!" there are 2-3 potential customers who walk away with a different product since they need a camera today--not some indefinite day in the future. And I would point out that the "pessimists" and "haters" such as myself who were saying that Dragon Epic would start to ship around early 2014 into summer 2014 last spring were right on target. As Anderson said, RED's intent is definitely now correct in boosting production to retain sales but intent is only half the battle--if it takes 3 months to get through the Epic-X backlog and start on Scarlet-D and then another 5 months like Epic to work through the Scarlet backlog there could very easily be people in 2015 receiving their upgrades even with a boost in production.

I hope this NAB was a good wakeup call to RED. It certainly appears to have been one for Blackmagic who got their shit together. Nobody's domination is certain. This market is about to get very very competitive and very very crowded. If it costs $85k to setup a separate production line that can handle 500 cameras per month and that saves 1% of potential customers from dropping their order every month they're making an extra $90k. It makes no sense to be so far ahead technically only to squander your R&D advantage on manufacturing delaying your release by a year. R&D is f*#)@ expensive. When you buy an Epic you're probably spending 10% on manufacturing and 90% on R&D. If your product life is 3 years, but 1 year is spent stuck in upgrade limbo then you've blown 1/3rd of your R&D budget on a product you can't sell. RED seems to have looked around at the new landscape and done the same math.
 
When an organization has talented people and especially gifted leaders, all working 80+ hours a week to make their products and their organizations better, then, to me, it makes sense so support them in a positive way. Some people love to call others names out of frustration; "fan boy" is a favorite. I guess I could call them "haters" but I haven't and I won't. Name calling is a last resort when there is no reasoning in your argument.

I will continue to support and believe in RED, even when it's not clear they are prefect in their approach, because their ideas are better than mine and, I dare say, better than the arm chair quarterbacks who are trying to second guess from the back of the bleachers. Feedback on the forum is good, and no doubt it effects the thinking of the folks at RED. There is, however, no reason to present it in a pissy, whiny, negative way since the RED team is intelligent enough to pick out the wisdom that is presented even in a positive critique.


Every human needs and wants support, and organizations are made of humans. I don't think people respond to the stick as well as they respond to carrot. But that's just me. YMMV.
 
Name calling is a last resort when there is no reasoning in your argument... and yet you posted this:

I love it... I am not wrong yet, but if it turns out that I am then it is because the world changed because of my criticism; which makes me right after all. I am invincible!! LOL
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You might as well said: "Hi I'm Anderson and I'm a stupid moron who is always right even when I'm wrong. Lalalala I can do no wrong." Forgive me if I don't recognize your claims to holding some moral high ground.

I will continue to support and believe in RED, even when it's not clear they are prefect in their approach, because their ideas are better than mine
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Well, RED has agreed that adding production capacity is the better approach. So if their ideas are better than yours--by the Transitive Property of Good Ideas the armchair quarterbacks with whom RED agrees also have better ideas. I just get annoyed with back and forths that seem to go on indefinitely

Hater: "RED needs to improve ___________."
Fanboy: "No they don't, they don't need to change the_________. Why would anybody need something like that!? You have Red_______ v2. Everything is great! Epic is a Triumph"

-- *Introducting Red_____ v3* --

Fanboy: "OMG Look at how much better ____________ is! What an amazing breakthrough of RED ingenuity! It's like getting a whole new camera!"
 
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