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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon Reality Check

Jake Wilganowski said:
ARRI and 4k Alexa at nab is gonna happen. It will be expensive. What would be really crazy though, is if the price the Amira between $20-$30k. That would make huge waves.
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I would buy an amira in a heartbeat in the 20-30k range... no brainer

and If I had the 90k (guessing) to spend on a 4k alexa.. I would.. those things are CASH COWS..
90% of my jobs are alexa, and that number isnt going anywhere
 
Yep. I usually get to choose between the two, clients are usually happy with either one. I like working with epic because I can pre-build looks to load into camera, I really like this.

And I'll say it one more time for the record, action products/innocinema solve all of epics in/out and power issues with the best form factor. Way better than reds stuff. I really don't see why red haven't bought them out.

I'd certainly be interested in an amira for $20-$30k. Not because I think it's technical better than dragon, but i'd rent the heck out of it I'm sure. There are still DP's around me that don't understand red.
 
action products/innocinema solve all of epics in/out and power issues with the best form factor. Way better than reds stuff. I really don't see why red haven't bought them out.
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can you use AP kit and find ballence on the shoulder with a Short optimo/S4 and MB on the front?

thanks

Michael
 
Interesting. Again, this is good info to get to Red. So reading the last page I'm getting two thoughts:

- There is a desire for a large, yet more ergonomic body.
- The Pro I/O Module itself is too large.

For a more indi/ENG/EFP geared body I imagine you'd want 4X full size XLR inputs for audio likely tailing out of the right-rear side of the camera body.

The question for supported video feeds is a toughie. HDMI, HDSDI, Red LEMO, Wireless? How many monitor outs are desired?

A physical Timecode sync is going to be desired on whatever this potential thing could be.

What it sounds like people are after is a smaller, yet slightly more functional Pro I/O module. Perhaps with a ergonomic quick release shoulder pad accessory. I've seen similar in the rigging threads and I know I keep my Clutch is a somewhat similar configuration most of the time. Most of ergonomics I've seen that cause problems are due to weight displacement, meaning a front heavy rig usually. We've seen a litany of ways to place the batter further back, which works. I mostly keep my camera brain right in the center on my shoulder and rig out from there, which is balanced.


One thing I like about more recent modules and accessories is the ability to connect to the brain without the added space of the Module Adapter. Personally I'm also into the quick release found on the Backpack Quickplate as some of the potential for the future of that has been shown:

redNAB_0056.jpg


Love that for positioning and balance. I'd love to have LEMO extension cables in various lengths to assist with a bit of that, up to 10 feet even.

Some of the Red Element future concepts could also come into play to help with AKS and ergonomics:

redNAB_0022.jpg


However, we're just seeing the early fruits of this acquisition in the Red 3-Axis Lens Control System. Likely more goodness on the horizon.
 
Jake Wilganowski said:
And I'll say it one more time for the record, action products/innocinema solve all of epics in/out and power issues with the best form factor. Way better than reds stuff. I really don't see why red haven't bought them out. .
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I'll second that. I still maintain that you CAN get an Epic to be almost everything an Alexa is (in terms of form & function) but A) its not cheap to get there and B) it takes a lot of patience and fiddling.... but you CAN get there. Epic=Customizability Alexa=Efficiency
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Phil -

4 full size XLRs is crazy silly IMO.

What ENG/EFP camera has 4 XLR inputs?
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Well I agree. Two is plenty for 99% of ENG/EFP work. Heck one is plenty for a lot of that sort of thing.

I'm just reading and attempting to wrangle thoughts to see people's wants and desires.

Potentially it could lead to a designed product that solves a lot of these itches. However, as demonstrated in the past not everybody wants the same camera form factor, I'm in the "I like our small camera that we can rig up" category.
 
I think you are right....

I really think it would be a good idea to "bring in the broadcasters" and ACs...

And people like Peter Colister.
 
Phil Holland said:
Well I agree. Two is plenty for 99% of ENG/EFP work. Heck one is plenty for a lot of that sort of thing.

I'm just reading and attempting to wrangle thoughts to see people's wants and desires.

Potentially it could lead to a designed product that solves a lot of these itches. However, as demonstrated in the past not everybody wants the same camera form factor, I'm in the "I like our small camera that we can rig up" category.
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Yes - I agree two is plenty for 99% of ENG/EFP work.

ARRI AMIRA has THREE - most I've even seen on a camera.
 
Phil Holland said:
Well I agree. Two is plenty for 99% of ENG/EFP work. Heck one is plenty for a lot of that sort of thing.

I'm just reading and attempting to wrangle thoughts to see people's wants and desires.

Potentially it could lead to a designed product that solves a lot of these itches. However, as demonstrated in the past not everybody wants the same camera form factor, I'm in the "I like our small camera that we can rig up" category.
Click to expand...

I agree. I think it's pretty amazing the Epic can fly on the Movi. An Alexa or any other larger camera can't. And Epic's small size is ideal for 3D. You can always make a small camera feel "big". But a big camera can't ever go small.

By that logic, the smaller size certainly appears more versatile, though I understand...not always as convenient (building it "big" takes time).

Everything comes with a price, it would seem. RED chose to be versatile and flexible: but these options require a certain amount of familiarity and experience to maximize. Toia I believe once compared the Epic to a high-end racing car. Can go very fast, but if you don't know what you're doing, can be treacherous as well.
 
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2 XLR's
2 HDSDI outputs
Timecode
+1 for on board monitoring with LCD
2 Lemo jacks for wireless follow focus or other accessories
Built in Mini Mag slot for 4k Prores recording
Mini lcd displaying current settings, recording status, time remaining for 4k proxies, audio levels and timecode.

Preferably all of this on the dumb side.

I think on board 4k recording ready to edit is really important moving forward. Editors can get straight to work and even finish with that workflow, or re-link to the R3D's for color and VFX. I think this would help supplant RED cameras further throughout the industry. You keep the RAW flexibility but you get the speed as well.

I don't mind the smaller profile now and it serves my needs. But if this is about giving people what they want, then I think those features are important. I also think the HDMI jack should be upgraded to HDMI 2.0 for on set 4K display and playback.

I would actually like to see this as a more expensive "new model." Add $8,000 to the current Epic price and you get the same sensor and boards but in a new body with these features and built in shoulder pad, similar to Alexa and F5/55 (more similar in size to F5/55). That way you can order the Epic as we know it now, or as an classic ENG body style with those above features. Epic Dragon and Epic Dragon EXT. If they are going in a "new model" direction, then I'd add built in ND's. I don't think people could complain about that total package.
 
Matt Ryan said:
2 XLR's
2 HDSDI outputs
Timecode
+1 for on board monitoring with LCD
2 Lemo jacks for wireless follow focus or other accessories
Built in Mini Mag slot for 4k Prores recording
Mini lcd displaying current settings, recording status, time remaining for 4k proxies, audio levels and timecode.

Preferably all of this on the dumb side.

I think on board 4k recording ready to edit is really important moving forward. Editors can get straight to work and even finish with that workflow, or re-link to the R3D's for color and VFX. I think this would help supplant RED cameras further throughout the industry. You keep the RAW flexibility but you get the speed as well.

I don't mind the smaller profile now and it serves my needs. But if this is about giving people what they want, then I think those features are important. I also think the HDMI jack should be upgraded to HDMI 2.0 for on set 4K display and playback.

I would actually like to see this as a more expensive "new model." Add $8,000 to the current Epic price and you get the same sensor and boards but in a new body with these features and built in shoulder pad, similar to Alexa and F5/55 (more similar in size to F5/55). That way you can order the Epic as we know it now, or as an classic ENG body style with those above features. Epic Dragon and Epic Dragon EXT.
Click to expand...

Just catching up to the conversation but I agree with everything Matt is saying here.

I always felt like the Meizler module was going to really help give Epic a push into a more fully feature integrated camera. I for one would love a module that offers what Matt just listed as well as wireless 1080 video/audio feed with the ability to add nicely designed shoulder pad.


Phil Holland said:
redNAB_0056.jpg
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Not too dissimilar to what Phil posted. That way we could keep the small size for certain applications and with one module + shoulder pad we can get close to that traditional sized body many are used to.
 
Just to add a few 'wish list' items into the mix, I'd love to see these things as new module systems as well:

NEEDS:
+ 4 full size XLR ports (I use 3+ a LOT)
+ SDI-type Timecode port
+ Rows of 1/4"-20 mounting points on top
+ Sliding durable memory foam shoulder pad system that mounts directly below the brain. Getting precise balance every time is key to being able to shoot all day. This is probably the biggest need for my shooting style.

WANTS:
+ Dual slot full size or mini REDMAG SSD slots for continuous recording. Doesn't need to be a spanned clip (those can cause problems), but one card should pick up right where the previous card left off.
+ Lock-it box (or similar) built in to maintain consistent timecode
+ Additional 6G HD-SDI and HDMI 4K out ports with selectable looks applied
+ Additional RED Lemo Monitor out port
+ 1 USB 5V out port
+ 2 Lemo power-out ports

And this may be more of a firmware thing, but I'd love to see some way to have the HD-SDI / HDMI ports hold the last frame until it magnifies, or just not zoom in while the EPIC switches into 1:1 Magnify mode. Whenever I work with someone new to the system, there's a freakout moment when they see the diagonal lines and pink noise for the few moments while it zooms in. Anything to fix this would be much appreciated.
 
Matt Ryan said:
If only they could integrate a +1 output in there as well.
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You can use the plus one module with their stuff. It's super solid. Audio configuration is the best too...
 
Michael Lindsay said:
can you use AP kit and find ballence on the shoulder with a Short optimo/S4 and MB on the front?

thanks

Michael
Click to expand...

Yeah that's easy. Just get a long dovetail and put the shoulderpad on it. One dovetail lives on the tripod, one dovetail has shoulderpad on it.
 
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