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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon Reality Check

Paul E. McCarthy said:
I would like to see the proxy recording integrated into the touch screen. Imagine a Mini SD slot on your OLED touch screen which you could record every prores and dnx hd under the sun.

Arri would be F'd.

VP9 maybe...
Click to expand...

One of the smartest things suggested so far. WOW. This could turn heads.
 
I agree that the innocinema stuff is good.

But before people "get to that", they are usually invested in a lot of stuff not compatible with that.

I think we are talking about a new body/design, basically re-packaging the camera in a new enclosure.

The touch is great for a one-man operator. But not really that cool if THAT is the monitor and the AC has to rely on the redmote.
I read that some people have success with the redmote.
But it has eventually been ditched from any set I have been to.

Maybe an iPad/iPhone app could remedy that.
There is allready wifi built into the cam, so it should work "out of the box". (like Ted demoed).

Unless that, it would be good with a sidepanel like on the F55/Alexa for AC camera operation.

The EVF needs to be rock solid in all ways and the Touch could work as the operator panel IF the EVF was not under question.
Still there is something to be said for the easy button/access to what many use as their main controls.
We have been discussing XLRs. More importantly (or at least as importantly) are gain dialers easily accessible.

4k proxy-module sounds nice and all, but it should be able to record 1080, too.
RED has transformed the business, and 4k is on everyones roadmap. But that is not a reason to exclude the camera from all the production that will be shot in 1080 on the F55/C300/Amira as long as 4k is not considered a practical route.
And even though I know the Innocinema is rock solid, the mecano-look is not comforting.
Built into one ergonomic body, I thin that is a winner.

I like "modular" and the design has been great for 3D shows.
But I think really Arri has been smart in releasing the same camera in different designs for different applications.

Studio/Amira/(and 4:3)/XT/XT M and now the Amira.
It is a bit like the Scarlet choice. Do not re-design "everything", if it is not asked for, but make designs optimized for different applications with the same sensor/imaging tech.

And I see applications for this in both Broadcast and cinema applications.

The "breadbox/DSLR design will stay in.

But for a group of users, this would make RED such a much more easy choice and also you would not need to do what Mark has hinted at, burn through a lot of solutions you end up ditching, in your search for a good solution.
Because in fact, there are not too many excellent solutions. Many has focused on bits and pieces of the most immediate needs.
Which is fine.
but there are users who wants the "system" out of the box.

With the Dragon RED has an image tech that probably can land them some time. The images are just beautiful.
(Not that I think they sit down and rest, but still)

The original RED ONE was designed for weirdos like me, grabbing an S35mm cam doing stuff. Basically on my own.
Then 3D/breadbox came along. Out of the box, the Epic looks and feels like it is a "remote head".
I dig it. THAT is besides the point. I can run around with the body and the side-handle all day long. Which is great.

But now, with the Dragon, I think "application" is the next biggie.
But OTOH, what do I know?
I have def NOT made a billion or two... :)
 
To me. I'd rather see red focus on post Production with the development of post appliance that attaches via one T b2 connector.

It's a killer post solution that goes from your laptop, an iMac or a Mac tower or any TB enabled device. This box might have an integrated half size rocket card, expandable flash memory up to 5tb, a mini mag and full mag reader.

While in the field this box, which is light weight, rugged and compact, allows you to back up and create proxies with or without a computer attached.

1. Plug in mag and it's preprogrammed to offload that mag to PCI flash storage.
2. Verified copies then directly begin to create PR or DNX HD based on a dip switch or something the user selects.
3. When attached to a Tb1 or TB 2 computer it functions as a Sonnet or magma enclosure accelerating your R3d playback or rendering or fcp x, resolve, premier pro experience.

I'd like to see red developed this kind of post appliance, THAT would be innovative. And more than anything it would be one appliance for many purposes and solve real problems with remote locations or fast turnaround. It has to fit in a backpack and work with or without a computer attached. Think about it.

Or you can attach a usb3 drive press one button to copy and hand that to a client at the end of the day.

5tb of redmags and. 5tb of onboard flash storage gives you 10tb of footage before you'd actually have to get to a computer. And many of your proxies could already be made while you have it powered off the cigarette lighter in your car.

What I want from RED is this kind of innovation. A BOX that is working at the post part of the RED WORKFLOW in all those in between times on a shoot doing what has to get done, secure backup and proxy processing. This would be far more revolutionary than any extra piece of Lego that people want to stick to the camera and the owner/op base would eat this up.

If you got into The innocinema stuff before buying bits and pieces from ten different places, the you have, pretty much the modular camera, power, accessories, wireless and everything needed for a feature film or commercial set, but still the ability to great it down to fly on a movie or steadicam or octocopter.

I'd encourage the an invention and innovation that compresses the workflow over the development of stuff you can already get about ten different places. Invent, don't reinvent.

Battistella
 
David Battistella said:
To me. I'd rather see red focus on post Production with the development of post appliance that attaches via one T b2 connector.

It's a killer post solution that goes from your laptop, an iMac or a Mac tower or any TB enabled device. This box might have an integrated half size rocket card, expandable flash memory up to 5tb, a mini mag and full mag reader.

While in the field this box, which is light weight, rugged and compact, allows you to back up and create proxies with or without a computer attached.

1. Plug in mag and it's preprogrammed to offload that mag to PCI flash storage.
2. Verified copies then directly begin to create PR or DNX HD based on a dip switch or something the user selects.
3. When attached to a Tb1 or TB 2 computer it functions as a Sonnet or magma enclosure accelerating your R3d playback or rendering or fcp x, resolve, premier pro experience.

I'd like to see red developed this kind of post appliance, THAT would be innovative. And more than anything it would be one appliance for many purposes and solve real problems with remote locations or fast turnaround. It has to fit in a backpack and work with or without a computer attached. Think about it.

Or you can attach a usb3 drive press one button to copy and hand that to a client at the end of the day.

5tb of redmags and. 5tb of onboard flash storage gives you 10tb of footage before you'd actually have to get to a computer. And many of your proxies could already be made while you have it powered off the cigarette lighter in your car.

What I want from RED is this kind of innovation. A BOX that is working at the post part of the re d WORKFLOW in all those in between times on a shoot doing what has to get done, secure backup and proxy processing. This would be far more revolutionary than any extra piece of Lego that people want to stick to the camera and the owner/op base would eat this up.

If you got into The innocinema stuff before buying bits and pieces from ten different places, the you have, pretty much the modular camera, power, accessories, wireless and everything needed for a feature film or commercial set, but still the ability to great it down to fly on a movie or steadicam or octocopter.

I'd encourage the an invention and innovation that compresses the workflow over the development of stuff you can already get about ten different places. Invent, don't reinvent.

Battistella
Click to expand...


David that would be one kick ass product. Would buy that in a heart beat.
 
David. I understand do not really disagree.

It is more of a practical observation where I see why other cameras are chosen in situations where RED could have been an obvious choice.

And that is basically comfortlevel for AC/DP and post.
All those can be adressed, without claiming that things are impossible.

And Innocinema is not a first choice for many as they solve one issue at the time and it is not neccesarily "obvious" that there is where the solution lies.

Less confusion for those who need that is good for all.
I think.

Does not mean that you, Mark or I struggle with our own productions.
Just that RED now has an imaging tech that is so easy/good to use that one could wish for more of that in the system.
 
Gunleik,

I agree with you.

The aesthetic and design of epic is and always has been 5k in your hand. That is the idea that allowed red to innovate and create that for us. 5k in your hand.

They (I think) weren't thinking, I want 5k in an Aaton "cat on the shoulder". So the very modular design thinking brought us here.

Take apple's nMP, they packed all the power they could into a tube and the connectivity problems are left to third parties, some approved, some not. Does apple want to build a promise style HD enclosure? No. A magma or sonnet box? No. A killer 4k monitor? Yes (albeit probably repackaged.

So, all I am saying is that a lot of R&D has gone into products that have not hit the market (that happens all the time of course) but how many of them would innovate like the epic body? To me, redmote?, Yes. Side handle? yes. 5", 9" touchscreen yes. Revolts, yes. revolt xl and module or quad module, not so much. Meizler, not really applicable to all levels of production, three axis focus, sort of the same.

RED should make the stuff I can't live without or get anywhere else.

So, I guess I am just seeing a void, "the post void" if you want to call it that, and I do not think a PCI e card is on the level of innovation as the rest of the real innovative red stuff mentioned above. I think they, or someone they partner with, could do way better in terms of innovative ways to make the whole ecosystem much more integrated.

Its true, you and I and many other have no problems with solving perceived production problems, but I think we can all think Outside the box a bit (we kinda live outside the box actually). So I just imagine what would be perfect and share it here in case it can help RED or any other user.

While I am at it, I'd add a little atmos sized lcd screen to that post appliance, just for visual verification and to review takes. :)

And BTW a lot of people, including red, make great accessories for the EPIC and red one. Inno just catches my eye as a really well thought out complete system that solves many things being discussed here. Nothing is the be all and end all.

Battistella
 
David Battistella said:
To me. I'd rather see red focus on post Production
Click to expand...

If I could show you a version of something like this that works with and without a Red Rocket-X and works on any PC, verifies and offloads mags to two separate drives (or however many you define), generates preview thumbnails, mag reports, with editable metadata, and creates "fast" proxies for quick review with user customized settings would that be the sort of thing you'd be into?

Just curious.
 
Hm...

David. That sounded a lot like Pomfort Silverstack on a laptop built into the same chassis as a cardreader RR and a raid with removable drives.

http://pomfort.com/silverstack/

Or did I not get it? :) I often do not.

But I know I am using the same argument... "It is there somehow already"

Some of the things I think would be good with a new housing is not there, though, and cannot come from external vendors.
Unless they are given access to internal controls of the camera through external devices.

But again: I get your point.
 
Gunleik,

that looks software based, but I see where you are going with that. It does make sense. Cool little tool that looks directed at DIT as a production to post integrated solution.

It's hard to say, there are so many solutions.

Ill expand a bit in my reply to Phil's question.


Battistella
 
Phil Holland said:
If I could show you a version of something like this that works with and without a Red Rocket-X and works on any PC, verifies and offloads mags to two separate drives (or however many you define), generates preview thumbnails, mag reports, with editable metadata, and creates "fast" proxies for quick review with user customized settings would that be the sort of thing you'd be into?

Just curious.
Click to expand...

phil,

i think many people would be into that. I think with the release of the nMP (and I will speak strictly for mac users here) I would want one RED POST appliance that attaches to all my machines via one TB cable.

THE GUTS
-rocket style processing
-flash based expandable onboard storage -kinda like owc's pcie storage.
-off the shelf SSD port (removable)
-minimag port
-redmag port
-small lcd monitor (pix, atmos style)
-simple three or four button interface (copy, proxie, play, stop, next)
-USB 3.0 port
-TB 2 port
-can run off ac or 2 vmount batteries in remote locations

Form factor
-similar dimensions as a 15 MacBook Pro (fits in existing storage like pelican or backpack)
-under 5kg
-Carry handle


Plug N Play in any production environment
-Need it on the road? attach to laptop (or maybe no laptop needed)
-need it back at home base to do heavy lifting? plug it in to the TB and you are good to go.
-need to loan it to a friend or rent it for a weekend so people can do some transcodes on their iMac? good to go.
-attach it to a Mac mini in a render farm? check.

I once called the EPIC a Swiss Army knife camera. Build it how you need it, put it where you want. Why not a Swiss Army knife type of RED POST box that serves all levels of production?

I'm not into handling and swapping out pci-e cards from the Mac to a sonnet enclosure (can be done but it's not a graceful and elegant solution, like what EPIC is to filmmaking). I don't think those cards are really meant to be moved around that much.

This is a, "Take it anywhere post powerhouse", that solves a number of basic perceived problems.

-immediate backup
-proxy creation with verified material
-remote locations
-visual verification
-one box into any TB 2 equipped computer.
-goes with you and you regular camera package anywhere.


so yeah, just expanding on what you are saying, this is what I'd be into because I think it innovates and solves everyday problems by doing way more than what a pcie card does.

Battistella
 
Phil Holland said:
If I could show you a version of something like this that works with and without a Red Rocket-X and works on any PC, verifies and offloads mags to two separate drives (or however many you define), generates preview thumbnails, mag reports, with editable metadata, and creates "fast" proxies for quick review with user customized settings would that be the sort of thing you'd be into?

Just curious.
Click to expand...

I have always wondered why nobody has done this as a product. 1 Beyond got close - but never really nailed a rugged "appliance" at a low cost that is totally RED specific - http://1beyond.com/product-categori...mac-wrangler-dude-on-set-data-wrangler-system - but this is the right direction IMO - http://1beyond.com/product-categories/information/lto-netdrive-ltfs-archiving-and-backup-solultion

Small, custom military grade micro-computer running linux. Codex Vault without the over-engineering. I'd do it with no screen - just an Android or HTML5 UI that connect to with wifi - use any tablet to control.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Small, custom military grade micro-computer running linux. Codex Vault without the over-engineering. I'd do it with no screen - just an Android or HTML5 UI that connect to with wifi - use any tablet to control.
Click to expand...

yeah, screen could even be an app on ipad or iPhone. I've seen and demoed those rugged boxes as well. Maybe could be no larger than the case the Epic ships in with the same aesthetic. Carbon fiber to cut the weight.

Battistella
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Who cares :)

Getting wifi into a module will be game-changer for me. So many applications for that - and fast, on-camera non-destructive adjustments to color - it's a big deal.
Click to expand...

Get that! :)

THX. Any kind of de-confusing is cool.
 
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