Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon in the UK

Hi John,

Just read all your IR info very useful and great news many thanks for posting, thanks also for posting first mag footage, ordered my upgrade a few days
after having seen your footage, a no brainer to upgrade to Dragon, love my Epic but the Dragon looks out of this world.

If possible might have to have a sneak view of your Dragon in real life if so permitted, sometime in the next month or so :-) please!

Best Andrew
 
An easy thing to test would be a black cotton shirt under daylight with deep ND filtration on a warm day. Based on the graphics that you've posted though the deeper black to blue transition as well as the leading transitions of red are indeed good signs under both tungsten and daylight sources.

It's an interesting mistress. Cold weather yields different results. Hot summer light and air leads to something else. Hot mirror solutions on MX solve pretty much all of the concerns.
 
John Marchant said:
And disclaimer over with - yeah its an absolute blast having a whole new camera. It really 'feels' different. We are blessed, and I will do my best to share.

Thank you to everyone. I can't believe there's a sentence written on the internet where my name is written next to Bay and Fincher. What a weird mad world.
Click to expand...


Sir,
If you are not there yet, you are on your way to be next to these big dogs, who knows you might be pass them up.
From now on we have to look what you leave behind.
And you deserve the honor to be there.
Congratulation.
 
John Marchant said:
Some stills... All shot full 6k, on a 35mm MP.
No colour correction beyond a white balance. EXIF data via flickr if you want to dig into it.

Click each one for full size jpg. I'll describe a little more alongside them shortly from a tech point of view. All the interiors are tungsten, the exteriors are full afternoon sun, no bounce, no silks, no anything.






















Click to expand...

Hey John,
where those images frames taken out of a sequence or is a photo-mode available?

regards,
Sam
 
Phil Holland said:
An easy thing to test would be a black cotton shirt under daylight with deep ND filtration on a warm day. Based on the graphics that you've posted though the deeper black to blue transition as well as the leading transitions of red are indeed good signs under both tungsten and daylight sources.

It's an interesting mistress. Cold weather yields different results. Hot summer light and air leads to something else. Hot mirror solutions on MX solve pretty much all of the concerns.
Click to expand...

Yes, testing for IR outside will yield varied results, many factors such as atmospheric conditions, time of day/year, the season, geographic location, altitude, etc will greatly vary IR levels. Testing under tungsten indoors is a little easier to quantify, and reproduce. It's great to know that Dragon, like emulsion, is protected against IR pollution.
 
Sam Hunt said:
Hey John,
where those images frames taken out of a sequence or is a photo-mode available?

regards,
Sam
Click to expand...

Just stills from motion using the stills functionality in RCX
 
Hello Folks, I think all this info is great learning...one thing for sure for those like me who cannot upgrade yet to dragon, is to see all the comparison with MX which is what I own...a Scarlet! whenever you guys have the chance to provide detail ISO comparison side by side, just like the IR examples, that would be just great...Only because I know Dragon won't be in my hands and the hands of many others any time soon.

Loving all the info and learning everyday here..

Thanks!!!

Alain Maiki
Filmmaker-Director-Music Producer
 
John Marchant said:
I'll test this asap on an IR converted camera here... I have IR converted Epics that will show exactly what's going on. I have a black bag I often use for IR comparison - its half manmade, half natural fibre and shows in IR as a black and white bag ;)

Maybe I'll put it in the hot sun, and then hit a section with cold spray... see what happens :) Always willing to be proven wrong in the name of learning.
Click to expand...

Me too:-) Let me know your results!
 
Completed some private and pretty substantial tests yesterday. Serious people who have invested serious time across the 4K board, Dragon being the final contender.

Suffice to say that even while viewing on-set, and without the benefit of digging into the RAW which as we know is RED's forte, Dragon acquitted itself extremely well and impressed some careful, intelligent and impartial people.

Interestingly to me, Dragon's dynamic range is such that it is tough to create an artificially lit scene that actually challenges its boundaries.

I look forward to continuing my own testing however - we all have different methodologies, and I'm of course also excited to getting it out there into the real world of production as soon as possible.

A lot of my tests from this point are not the kind for sharing, more for personal learning, and Dragon is of course still a moving and improving target... never fear though, I do still have some visually pleasing testing left on the cards before I lock down the playing and put Dragon's nose to the grindstone.

I will just say, the camera in my hands right now feels robust, reliable and real-production ready... and those who know me will vouch that I don't say that lightly. Red's rate of progress and response is a sight to behold.
 
Last edited:
Not presently - I only have one set and our Monochrome is wearing them at the moment.

Honestly, the new firmware's fan algorithms do a very good job. The fans are the icing on the cake for me.
 
Hey John,

Pre final color and gamma science from RED, how does the DR stack up to the competition? I realize with the Dragonized color science/gamma things will only improve.
 
Red's official spec is 16.5+ stops. Thats a safe description IMHO, and of course it depends how you measure and interpret results... but I'd currently say its a very big '+'.

I will reserve judgement on a final figure til I have more time with a chart, but an aesthetic point of note when shooting DR charts was that the final brightest stop, and the stops past it that was fully burnt did not look wrong or ugly. Quite the opposite.
 
No problem. Happy to share what I can - doing my level best to pass on info through the filter of NDAs, private data, etc etc.

My brain is buzzing with Dragon stuff these past days - I'm afraid I've lit up Jarred's email something chronic too... haha. I'm convinced there's at least two or three Jarreds on shift work though, otherwise he's figured out how to send email in his sleep ;)
 
John Marchant said:
Here's the daylight version of the same chart. Better even than under tungsten.

I added a mega-pushed version of the IR pass spectra, just to illustrate that you could shoot real IR images for day exteriors if that's your thing. You need ten to twelve stops of overexposure compared to regular imaging to make a deep-red / near IR image. Of particular note is that the 720nm range IR pass filter is actually totally blocked in the very near IR - all the image it does make is in the deep red visible range.

dragonirdaylight.jpg


Note: These are aligned less precisely than the tungsten ones only because this is done with direct sunlight, and I have to chase the sun across the sky to do it ;)
Click to expand...

Hi John,

Have you done any tests to check for UV contamination with ND. Im sure its not a problem but would like to check if possible.

Ant thanks for the work on this its looking very good.

Dave
 
Dave, these images are cropped to the area of interest- the daylight versions if any would have shown UV, but there was just nothing of significance there, so I cropped above the deep violet :)
 
John Marchant said:
Red's official spec is 16.5+ stops. Thats a safe description IMHO, and of course it depends how you measure and interpret results... but I'd currently say its a very big '+'.

I will reserve judgement on a final figure til I have more time with a chart, but an aesthetic point of note when shooting DR charts was that the final brightest stop, and the stops past it that was fully burnt did not look wrong or ugly. Quite the opposite.
Click to expand...

I hate throwing around numbers I have not been directly involved with the testing for, but I fully subscribe to Johns descriptions!

G
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top