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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon impressions

Rob Anderson said:
Screen grabs from another personal project I shot the other night. Dragon 6K FF. 3 light cans. 58mm and 85mm. Adjusted curves, otherwise ungraded.

Edit coming soon.

rope_blackwoodcinema01_sml.jpg


rope_blackwoodcinema02_sml.jpg
Click to expand...

These are beautiful pictures, but could you have gotten extremely similar images maybe identical ones with an Epic MX? Me thinks very likely yes, but I suppose it all depends on the lighting conditions and limitations and I was not there.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
These are beautiful pictures, but could you have gotten extremely similar images maybe identical ones with an Epic MX? Me thinks very likely yes, but I suppose it all depends on the lighting conditions and limitations and I was not there.
Click to expand...
Not with the same lighting and set up, no. 1280 ISO at 2 stop would be a different peel coming off of the MX. Also, 6K FF. You'd see a different crop.
 
wow Rob, sharing a lot of stuff. Much appreciated my man!
 
I like the imagery and cool subject! But from a tech. standpoint they have weird disappointing noise patterns going on, it could be the scaling you are using to post on the web though I suppose.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
There were strange effects in the bokeh.
Click to expand...

RED has been very clear that if you go above 4 stops of ND (ND 1.2) you should not open up wider than t4.0. If you stay under ND 1.2 you can open up as much as you'd like.

I have been testing the motion mount for over a month and haven't seen any weirdness in the bokeh when staying within those limitations. I know quite a few people who own it can't shoot without it now.
 
Jogg Cranston said:
I like the imagery and cool subject! But from a tech. standpoint they have weird disappointing noise patterns going on, it could be the scaling you are using to post on the web though I suppose.
Click to expand...
I noticed that too. It's not noise and not present in the original footage. (See R3D in my main post.) Artifacts are from JPEG compression to web. Looking forward to the day when we can stop compromising by sharing our 4K+ films at 1080 all of the other lossy formats. REDRAY... You're up. Glad you liked the imagery. Thank you.
 
These are some really beautiful images. What ISO are you using? And, still using the DJ lights? If you are I'm going to have to go buy some!
 
Rob,

Thanks for posting.

Looking at the clip you provided, seeing it was shot at 9:1 compression and watching it at 1/8 resolution on my screen (because my rocket setup is out) I have to say that my jaw dropped.

I had a RED MOMENT. Those of you who have been around since the start might be able to relate.

1. This dragon footage is nice.
wait
2. It's playing back full screen at 1/8th resolution on my mac
wait.
3. Am I sure those are the settings, this looks way to good!
wait.
4. Check metadata. That is 9:1 compression
wait.
5. Let me double check that.
wait.
6.Shit, I want this thing bad now, more than I did last week!
Wait.
7. When is someone, anyone at RED going to send me that e-mail?

LOL :)

Awe dang! Red has delivered these moments since the beginning. So nice to see they just keep hitting it out of the park.

David
 
David Battistella said:
Rob,

Thanks for posting.

Looking at the clip you provided, seeing it was shot at 9:1 compression and watching it at 1/8 resolution on my screen (because my rocket setup is out) I have to say that my jaw dropped.

I had a RED MOMENT. Those of you who have been around since the start might be able to relate.

1. This dragon footage is nice.
wait
2. It's playing back full screen at 1/8th resolution on my mac
wait.
3. Am I sure those are the settings, this looks way to good!
wait.
4. Check metadata. That is 9:1 compression
wait.
5. Let me double check that.
wait.
6.Shit, I want this thing bad now, more than I did last week!
Wait.
7. When is someone, anyone at RED going to send me that e-mail?

LOL :)

Awe dang! Red has delivered these moments since the beginning. So nice to see they just keep hitting it out of the park.

David
Click to expand...

David, what you have described is what has me convinced Dragon is the way to go. For one, it allows me to exceed the quality of the Epic X without increasing data rate too much (I think someone said 17:1 Redcode is similar to Epic X 6:1 or maybe 8:1? in quality).

But then, if I want to capture a scene that I know I am going to crop, I can set a low setting and capture that and pay the data rate penalty.

Not only is there more latitude in the DR, but more latitude in the way we shoot.
 
Looks to me like the "no ISO penalty" is in full play. I can move this clip from 200iso to 2000 ISO with no discernible difference in noise.

This shit is real. Huge for me in my work.

David
 
My RedcineX Grade: (ISO 2000 with curves applied and as for the noise, keep in mind this shot is underexposed at 800ISO. Pushing it this far you'd think there would be a ton more noise!)
A002_C012_1129ID_S000.00000111.jpg


Thanks Rob for the sample!
 
Elsie N said:
David, what you have described is what has me convinced Dragon is the way to go. For one, it allows me to exceed the quality of the Epic X without increasing data rate too much (I think someone said 17:1 Redcode is similar to Epic X 6:1 or maybe 8:1? in quality).

But then, if I want to capture a scene that I know I am going to crop, I can set a low setting and capture that and pay the data rate penalty.

Not only is there more latitude in the DR, but more latitude in the way we shoot.
Click to expand...

It's unclear on a 1:1 comparison between REDCODEs just yet, but John Marchant posted an interesting sample some time ago. We do need to test different subject matter with various levels of detail. What is clear is that the REDCODE compression schemes with Dragon are greatly improved due to the lower noise floor. Much more flexibility. I see most shooting at 5:1 for standard cinema applications with the Dragons that are out there now, but the higher compression schemes look pretty damn good as well. I think we'll see more people going towards things like 6:1 through 10:1 for a lot of applications. The older 17:1 and 15:1 material I shot looked damn good and that wasn't the latest calibration. Things are nicer on the Dragons that people have in their hands right now.

One note on the DR. That massive dynamic range really effects the amount of clean workable latitude within the REDCODE itself. You can push and pull material around a lot more these days without breaking it and that's really exciting.
 
Phil Holland said:
It's unclear on a 1:1 comparison between REDCODEs just yet, but John Marchant posted an interesting sample some time ago. We do need to test different subject matter with various levels of detail. What is clear is that the REDCODE compression schemes with Dragon are greatly improved due to the lower noise floor. Much more flexibility. I see most shooting at 5:1 for standard cinema applications with the Dragons that are out there now, but the higher compression schemes look pretty damn good as well. I think we'll see more people going towards things like 6:1 through 10:1 for a lot of applications. The older 17:1 and 15:1 material I shot looked damn good and that wasn't the latest calibration. Things are nicer on the Dragons that people have in their hands right now.

One note on the DR. That massive dynamic range really effects the amount of clean workable latitude within the REDCODE itself. You can push and pull material around a lot more these days without breaking it and that's really exciting.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying my suppositions Phil.

I look forward to having those rates tested and published so we can get a better handle on where the various sweet spots are (for different situations) and perhaps what settings to use to keep Dragon and Epic X on an equal footing when shooting with both cameras.
 
I am really enjoying this thread. I also shoot with the new nikon lenses (25,35,58,85) but with a monochrome epic, it seems to have a similar feel to your shots. I find shooting with this new nikon glass with the monochrome sensor just free's me from dealing with my 3 other lens mounts and "tons" of cinema glass. Please keep the updates coming as you have the time, much appreciated.
 
Nice grade. The original has some background noise matter than you seemed to tone down. This might be worth a download, thanks for making the R3D available Rob.

Matt Ryan said:
My RedcineX Grade: (ISO 2000 with curves applied and as for the noise, keep in mind this shot is underexposed at 800ISO. Pushing it this far you'd think there would be a ton more noise!)
A002_C012_1129ID_S000.00000111.jpg


Thanks Rob for the sample!
Click to expand...
 
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