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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon Has More Noise Than MX???

thanks again gunleik... but in which way does ADD help with noise....???
 
Short answer: "An incredible amount"
Longer answer: By looking at the frames before and after in addition to the frame at hand when calculating an image.

It is a resource-hog, though and is mostly for online purpose.
DEB is easy on the processing.

Neither DEB nor ADD should be "on" by default, in my opinion, BTW.

They're "good tools to have"
 
well, thanks... help appreciated... :thumbsup:
 


DEB is a checkbox in the latest version of RCX.

It stands for: Dragon Enhanced Blacks and it only works on Dragon footage.

It specifically reduces red speckled noise in the shadow areas of footage shot on the STH olpf.
It is an on/off switch applied in post if needed.

It is in the latest release of davinci resolve as well.
There is no render penalty with DEB. On or off the render is the same.
works only if render is set to FULL or HALF res Premium

ADD - advanced Dragon Debayer

A predictive algorithm that analyzes before and after frames to produce the best possible frame. Mainly used in stills extraction but can also be used to cleanup motion footage. Render times vary from 20-40 seconds PER FRAME, depending on the system.

battistella
 
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cheers dave... got it now...:thumbsup:
 
Where would I upload R3D snapshots? I don't think photobucket will allow that format..
 
Thanks Jesse,

I took a look. Some of that stuff looks optical, like there was some filtration or some flaring, but the texture you are talking about is there.

Looking at the files in FULL with DEB helps and I would say it is recoverable.

I'd say that the two clips are underexposed by about a stop and a half.


I have a hunch as to what might be the contributing factor. With Dragon you have to Blackshade the camera after a FW upgrade and apply that blackshading. It also has to be blackshaded when the camera is at operating temperature. I keep mine at 62 degrees adaptive mode. Since this is Clip 23 and 27 of a magazine, I am going to assume the camera was up to temperature, so I think that this might be the factory setting.

Also, the clips are at a 23.98 TIMEBASE but a 29.97 framerate (slight slow motion) this would factor for about a third of a stop of light loss as well on the clips in general.

It looks like the closeup was shot on a slower lens or stopped down. I know it is low key lighting but still it's not a very wide histogram. You can still light for this intended lo key look with a fat histogram.

I'd say the two contributing factors are:

Black Shading calibration
Over cranking


My guess is the T/E indicators on the LCD display were not both green. Totally recoverable with DEB on if you are grading in Resolve for example.


Battistella
 
Hey David,

In regards to the flaring, that's intentional so I don't mind what's happening there. That's why I included a few stills with flares and a few without.

I will relay the info about Blackshade to my DP. I know he had very recently done the upgrade to Dragon when we shot this clip so maybe he's still in a learning curve after breaking away from the MX.

You make a good point about the timebase difference, it may very well be a contributing factor.

As you say, it should be recoverable. I'll fix it in post ;) Sadly, I'm not using Resolve for this project. It was low budget so no extra money for a colorist. Instead, I'll do the grading myself in Premiere Pro with Colorista. Sounds kinda freaky, I know, but Colorista is actually a beast if handled properly.

As for exporting from Premiere, I guess there's no sexy Debayer option, I'll just click all the max render boxes and cross my fingers. If I'm really in a pinch I'll break out Neat Video and see how that goes.

Appreciate your feedback.

Cheers.
 
Jesse,
I agree on what David says in all.
Add more if you can shoot at 6k and if you shoot in low light always try to increase the ratio of 5: 1 REDCODE, this helps.
I made the flight a grade, there 'nothing to worry about, I usually use davinci and not REDCINE-x, I feel better and I can do everything at once including denoise in real time.
I tried to bring the clip to 2000 iso, used a, lut fuji and a bit of neat video ..
I am sure that having more time you can do better;) took me 5 minutes.
Matt makes you a much cleaner and better grade, if you listen to us :)
I'm in a hurry :(


Best wishes for your project;)


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No worries Jesse,

theres lots of of workflows and styles. I like the flares, they are an ice look. You will find that when you hits the dragon with a bit more light everything just pops.

if you render out full ,after grading and down converting to 2k or hd, I doubt it would be as noticeable as downscaling will also downscale the grain. Good luck with the project. Looks like fun.

Battistella




Jesse Maxwell said:
Hey David,

In regards to the flaring, that's intentional so I don't mind what's happening there. That's why I included a few stills with flares and a few without.

I will relay the info about Blackshade to my DP. I know he had very recently done the upgrade to Dragon when we shot this clip so maybe he's still in a learning curve after breaking away from the MX.

You make a good point about the timebase difference, it may very well be a contributing factor.

As you say, it should be recoverable. I'll fix it in post ;) Sadly, I'm not using Resolve for this project. It was low budget so no extra money for a colorist. Instead, I'll do the grading myself in Premiere Pro with Colorista. Sounds kinda freaky, I know, but Colorista is actually a beast if handled properly.

As for exporting from Premiere, I guess there's no sexy Debayer option, I'll just click all the max render boxes and cross my fingers. If I'm really in a pinch I'll break out Neat Video and see how that goes.

Appreciate your feedback.

Cheers.
Click to expand...
 
DEB for Low Light OLPF?

DEB for Low Light OLPF?

Hi!

Out of curiosity...

I know that DEB is designed specifically to deal with the problems introduced by the Skintone/Highlight OLPF.

Is it possible to use it on footage shot with the Low Light OLPF? Obviously, there would be fewer red dots/specks with the Low Light OLPF, but would DEB make that footage even cleaner? Is it even possible to apply it on LL OLPF footage?

Thanks!
 
Medavoym said:
Hi!

Out of curiosity...

I know that DEB is designed specifically to deal with the problems introduced by the Skintone/Highlight OLPF.

Is it possible to use it on footage shot with the Low Light OLPF? Obviously, there would be fewer red dots/specks with the Low Light OLPF, but would DEB make that footage even cleaner? Is it even possible to apply it on LL OLPF footage?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Absolutely, yes. It can help at high ISOs.
 
Medavoym said:
Hi!

Out of curiosity...

I know that DEB is designed specifically to deal with the problems introduced by the Skintone/Highlight OLPF.

Is it possible to use it on footage shot with the Low Light OLPF? Obviously, there would be fewer red dots/specks with the Low Light OLPF, but would DEB make that footage even cleaner? Is it even possible to apply it on LL OLPF footage?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I have been conducting experiments on this front along with the litany of other things I'm up to.

One thing I've found that DEB is useful for with the LLO OLPF is handling certain super saturated colors where detail is seemingly lost. DEB can bring a little bit of tonal and chromatic separation to some of those situations. Things like neon lights or specular highlights on say a wet street.
 
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