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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon Flare

...and it just keeps getting better.


this should be RED's official tag line because not only is it catchy, it's actually, well, true.


battistella
 
Not actually legal. Per NAB rules and regs, you cannot fulfill orders at NAB.

Blair S. Paulsen said:
If the timing works out perhaps you could accept incoming Epics in Irvine for upgrade per the usual methods but offer in person pick up in Las Vegas for RedUsers who are coming to NAB anyway. That way they could take them home as carry on. Just a thought. Might be fun to have a special "release the Dragons" event at the RED booth with a raffle for "limited edition" RedUser DragonFlight T-shirts or something...

I realize it might be too much hassle but I do think it would be fun, would put a positive spin on the Dragon rollout and be a nice treat for the folks who live far away. I also think it would send a valuable message to the industry if people were being handed Epic Dragons at NAB that could boot up and shoot on the spot.

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...
 
Big shout out to Phil, great data and analysis. I was particularly happy to see the color chips retaining more saturation farther up the exposure scale. IMO one of the digital "tells" vs film is the relationship between luma and sat at both ends of the scale. I am a strong believer in capturing as much real chroma as possible in production so I have as much freedom as possible in choosing the saturation level.

This leads me to another aspect of the Dragon that I noted even on the old OLPF - more chroma saturation at 1.0 (nominal) than on MX. In grading MX footy that's flat to begin with, it can take a 1.2 or even 1.3 sat push just to "normalize" the color strength which is easy enough, but with some material that can look a bit artificial. Starting with more genuine chroma information in the RAW data set can really open up options in grading and that's always welcome.

Cheers - #19
 
How to plane your Dragon...

How to plane your Dragon...

Brent@RED said:
Not actually legal. Per NAB rules and regs, you cannot fulfill orders at NAB.
Click to expand...

How about at an offsite event if all financial transactions were completed in advance? I can see how passing them out on the show floor might not fly. The (formerly red, now 4K Ninjas did an NAB booth in 2008 and I remember there being a number of rules and regs in the contract. IAC, I can only imagine what it takes to prepare for NAB without adding anything else to the docket. I haven't seen any NAB 2014 threads on RedUser so far so I don't know if there are any off site RedUser parties planned. I see that RED has reserved a large booth near the front of South Hall lower.

IAC, look forward to seeing everyone in just a little over 2 months :-O. Better make my hotel reservation...

Cheers - #19
 
Thank you Phil. You answered questions that have kept me up at night. Well, I would have been up working anyway I suppose...
Waiting for my email to Go Dragon!
 
Eat it RAW

Eat it RAW

Nick Morrison said:
Gunliek, would you have time to showcase new OLPF on your test? Would be incredible to see this latest iteration of Dragon put up against the best.
Click to expand...

VERY good idea, would be great if Dragon was sporting the new OLPF for GB's tests, That said, not sure if RED would be willing to let the version of RCX that can read those files out of house just yet. Phil is obviously on their short list of trusted partners, but I think its safe to say GB is not. If Geoff would allow Gunleik to do all the processing out to RGB (via DPX, Open EXR or TIFF in RLF) on his machine (with RED's blessing) prior to analysis then its theoretically possible. That said, consumption of hats made of something a bit less appetizing than cake might be required ;-)

Cheers - #19
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
How about at an offsite event if all financial transactions were completed in advance? I can see how passing them out on the show floor might not fly. The (formerly red, now 4K Ninjas did an NAB booth in 2008 and I remember there being a number of rules and regs in the contract. IAC, I can only imagine what it takes to prepare for NAB without adding anything else to the docket. I haven't seen any NAB 2014 threads on RedUser so far so I don't know if there are any off site RedUser parties planned. I see that RED has reserved a large booth near the front of South Hall lower.

IAC, look forward to seeing everyone in just a little over 2 months :-O. Better make my hotel reservation...



Cheers - #19
Click to expand...

Fulfilling orders offsite from NAB, every single person would have to pay NV sales tax as the point of delivery would be NV. RED would have to apply with the state of NV as a sales entity. And every single customer who takes delivery in the state of NV would have to pay sales tax on any order going to NV.

Not saying RED would never not consider this, just like we expanded into NY and had to go through these machinations of applications and such.

All that legal stuff aside, NAB for RED is already an all-hands-on-deck, even-less-sleep type of things. Adding on to what we have planned this year...(shiver).
 
Brent@RED said:
All that legal stuff aside, NAB for RED is already an all-hands-on-deck, even-less-sleep type of things. Adding on to what we have planned this year...(shiver).
Click to expand...

That my friend, I can only imagine. Wasn't intending to throw the RedTeam a grenade there.

I will now go hide so I'm not on Kelly's S*** list in Vegas ;-)

Look forward to seeing everyone.

Cheers - #19
 
Phil Holland said:
Yep. I can clarify. The new OLPF, calibration, and applied color science yields more captured highlight information.

Essentially, we've all seen the massive dynamic range wedge from way back when of the "native dynamic range" of the Dragon sensor.

Red has been tweaking and tuning the Calibration and Color Science on Dragon and figuring out exactly how to use that total available dynamic range while maintaining optimal image quality.

This new calibration essentially "remaps" the tonal placement a bit and that allows us to capture more highlight information. Under different sources I was able to measure a 1.3 stop difference in the general calibration and this reveals itself in highlights.

Here's an image that illustrates what that actually translates into visually:

Highlight Retention.



The Red and Green bars show the measurable difference between the old calibration and new calibration where the line between captured detail and overexposure exists. This graphic is desaturated and leveled out a bit to easily show the difference in captured dynamic range between the two calibrations. However, there is indeed more color information at the top there too due to it's new calibration as well, which was shown in the previous image. This is part of what's creating the rather organic looking highlight roll-off.
Click to expand...

Thanks Phil.
So... In this tread
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?111895-Dragon-dynamic-range-profiling-for-Sekonic
John maps 6.5 stops of highlight latitude on Dragon at 800 ISO with the old OLPF.
So, just double checking, but are you saying that this 6.5 will go to 7.8 with the new OLPF and color science etc.?
 
Martin Stevens said:
Thanks Phil.
So... In this tread
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?111895-Dragon-dynamic-range-profiling-for-Sekonic
John maps 6.5 stops of highlight latitude on Dragon at 800 ISO with the old OLPF.
So, just double checking, but are you saying that this 6.5 will go to 7.8 with the new OLPF and color science etc.?
Click to expand...

I'll measure it. I don't know if the total captured dynamic range just yet.

It needs to be an extremely precise measurement.

I am saying that the measured variation between the previous calibration and the new calibration reveals approximately 1.3-ish more stops of captured highlight information. This is something I have measured and have image data to showcase that.

So stay tuned on that one. I'm still testing away.
 
That makes sense. Where does the line start?

Brent@RED said:
This assumes when you drop it off, that we can start right away : )

You are going to have to assume we will notify people when we are ready to receive their camera and volume will fluctuate. I am guessing we will want at least a few days of it being in house to perform IQC, swap out OLPF, import new settings, test, OQC, etc.
Click to expand...

Probably won't matter by then in my case, production in full swing.

Phil Holland said:
You wouldn't be able to read the .R3Ds until this alpha build of RCX becomes available, when that happens I'll upload some of these for sure.




Thank you Mark :)

I'm on the same page of "happy feet" over this being fixed. It is a considerable improvement.
Click to expand...
 
David Battistella said:
...and it just keeps getting better.


this should be RED's official tag line because not only is it catchy, it's actually, well, true.


battistella
Click to expand...

Haha, I love it:

And it just keeps getting better.


This new OLPF is unbelievable news. An extra 1.3 in highlights, no flare, and improved color? I feel like it's Christmas all over again.
 
Nick Morrison said:
Haha, I love it:

And it just keeps getting better.


This new OLPF is unbelievable news. An extra 1.3 in highlights, no flare, and improved color? I feel like it's Christmas all over again.
Click to expand...

Amen Brother!
 
Nick Morrison said:
Gunliek, would you have time to showcase new OLPF on your test? Would be incredible to see this latest iteration of Dragon put up against the best.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately not.

Dragon is pretty hot as it is, though. It will just get better.
 
Phil Holland said:
I'll measure it. I don't know if the total captured dynamic range just yet.

It needs to be an extremely precise measurement.

I am saying that the measured variation between the previous calibration and the new calibration reveals approximately 1.3-ish more stops of captured highlight information. This is something I have measured and have image data to showcase that.

So stay tuned on that one. I'm still testing away.
Click to expand...


interesting to know :)
 
Hey Phil,
Amazing work Mate! Maybe I missed it but what are you recommending for IRND brand and model for Dragon? I'm currently using the Schneider Platinum IRND series.
Thank you for the efforts for our benefit!
 
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