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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon and low light noise

Ah, thanx. Nice to hear!

I like what I hear about mixed lights. Opens up some new possibilites. I've always thought, that it was physicly impossible to make mixed lighting look good on any camera. So I reckon that bar-scenes with neons, green, pink, yellow will absolutly shine on the Dragon?
 
I shoot the Dragon HLSolpf at ISO 400 now, and still try to push the histogram to the right a bit. Digital cameras need light the more light the better your options and results, it's really just about physics. Great information in this thread BTW guys.

Side note, I was opperating on a feature recently (not DoP unfortunately) and the director/DP was actually turning down the big LED lights on a night exterior because he felt like the image didn't look dark enought on the RedTouch. I was going out of my mind and tried to carefully share my "thoughts" but I could tell the dir/DP didn't want to hear it. I'm sure that footage looked like crap, it's a shame some people still don't get it.
 
Gunliek Groven has some nice mixed light examples:

10708529_10152803071995126_3506162172559239465_o.jpg


10547905_10152807300775126_1934354869600710685_o.jpg


10469557_10152807298880126_4133126411363990993_o.jpg


Have you ever seen flourescent lighting...

10818290_10152812945105126_4142680052127506686_o.jpg


...look this good?

1149449_10152812131205126_1121916310130704868_o.jpg


10397055_10152812662260126_6454440652694900048_o.jpg


10495862_10152817175710126_8742139078014451950_o.jpg


That last shot is ISO 1600, STH OLPF, no NR. See the full thread here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?122289-More-silence-from-me

Thanks, Gunliek!
 
Mark Andersen said:
[...]

Side note, I was opperating on a feature recently (not DoP unfortunately) and the director/DP was actually turning down the big LED lights on a night exterior because he felt like the image didn't look dark enought on the RedTouch. I was going out of my mind and tried to carefully share my "thoughts" but I could tell the dir/DP didn't want to hear it. I'm sure that footage looked like crap, it's a shame some people still don't get it.
Click to expand...

The horror! The horror!
 
Don't get me wrong. When exposed properly the camera is extremely beautiful. I just am not digging the low light look. I really thought I would be able to push the camera more than this. It's all a learning process, I used the red one for 5 years and now it's time to learn how this camera works. That's one of the best things about filmmaking.

Thank you all for the responses. Red users are such a fantastic bunch of people.

I really just wanted to make sure my camera wasn't broken. While I am still not 100% sure, I do feel a little better.
 
Hey Steve,

ultimately everone wants everyone to get the best out of their camera and the images you and it produces. When you pop an LLO OLPF in there, there will be a whole new set of things to look at and look for.

My best advice is to get a working model and a strategy that is right for you and your specific situation, whether that means adding a bit of light, reflectors, faster glass, whatever, plenty of people are making great images and so can everyone with the right strategy.

cheers,
battistella
 
steveszol said:
I placed an order for the upgrade kit and LL OLPF. Red said 7-10 days to ship.
Click to expand...

I remember one years ago ...
steve looks, the lowlight in RED Dragon carbon .. this I have no light ..immagine underexposed
Lens used was a mini cooke s4 for the tests at t2.8 ..
Now the new OLPF Low light is even better than tests of Phil .. maybe this be your way.

I hope to help you.

tiff and R3D:
https://mega.co.nz/#!hJE0TBZD!8ujULH0oOhSD8HH_-Rz2mtb227UxNGoBj7iLSHzj0s8
https://mega.co.nz/#!kF9gDBDT!Tqsr716wlv59oi9_H3afE2XihQY4gs9AuwvaEH2rvi8

TEST_zps9def90eb.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
Andrey Nikolaev said:
It has been discussed a lot already. The reason of the grain is the new Skin-Tone OLPF (it removes flares, gives nice skin tones, but it is less light sensitive). You need the Low Light Optimized OLPF to get rid of the grain at ISO800 (and even at ISO2000). I was surprised and terrified as well after my first shooting day on Dragon. I got so much noise, because I was sure Dragon could shoot at ISO2000 as it had been advertised. It was a disaster to reduce the grain in post.
Click to expand...

Is this the Low Light OLPF ? http://www.red.com/search?utf8=✓&q=Low+Light+Optimized+OLPF
 
Greetings. Been watching this thread and thought I'd toss something together for you.

I have created a 1.6GB proRes 422 LT DCI 4K Quicktime of the following setup from my Interchangeable OLPF Test:

phfx_redDragon_OLPFISOcompareShort.jpg


This particular shorter cut only focuses on ISO 250, 500, 1000, and 2000 (1 stop increments). They were shot at 6K FF at 5:1 REDCODE RAW using DRAGONcolor/REDgamma4 and finished up to DCI 4K without D.E.B using both the Skin Tone - Highlight and Low Light Optimized OLPFs.


Download Link:
http://www.artbyphil.com/temp/reduser/phfx_redDragon_OLPFISOcompareShort.zip


Take special note that nothing in frame here is not by accident. The exposures are kept consistent via the lens aperture. The tones throughout the frame have been lit to produce ideal and difficult tones to render via light meter. If you are downloading and watching this try to watch these key areas:

1 The book around center frame
2 The bowl of cotton balls center frame right, both the cotton and the bowl itself including the table reflection
3 The area below the table, frame left
4 The wall in the background center frame and frame right

In areas 3 and 4 you will see the most texture across the ISO ratings as that's where it's going to be most apparent.

Again, this test is without D.E.B. and can be cleaner "at no cost" to processing time for both OLPFs. Note the bigger differences occur at ISO 1000 and 2000.

There's a lot of talk about low light noise. I'm cool with all the chatter, but much of what I read is rather silly in terms of expectations as there currently isn't a "clean" ISO 2000 4K camera on the market that doesn't utilize in camera noise reduction, which Red cameras do not use.

As I've shown before this all depends on your exposure, exposure methods, and lighting conditions. I've been able to shoot very nice ISO 4000 even with the Low Light Optimized OLPF. If the shot itself is under and you're lifting shadow values from the noise floor, it's going to be noisy. Noisy on every camera. My last shoot was using the Skin Tone - Highlight OLPF all at ISO 800 and there were no issues with noise. Next one I'm likely aiming at ISO 400 as I do want the texture to be cleaner overall. There is no camera that keeps texture consistent across the ISO range, so please remember that as well.
 
Awesome as always Phil.

:)
 
I recently noticed a huge reduction in noise (on my Dragon) switching from a manual to the "factory" black calibration. It was very surprising...and noticeable.
I've been too busy to test or read through numerous threads but it certainly worth investigating further IMHO.
 
That is interesting re the factory setting. Never tried that but will for sure. Wanted to add to this as a possible reassurance to some that I just had my Epic configured as interchangeable and put in the the LLO. Had a three day shoot, doc style in a hospital. I noticed that the highlights were a bit more blowy as was to be expected but not egregious. The lowlight cleanness however is totally excellent - really! - and we flew through our days with minimal lighting. Color balance control is also way superior to MX. For people who need to be lean and mean this camera in this configuration is an amazing choice for the price and ongoing R and D.

I think it is clear from this and many threads that Epic not being a point and shoot causes depression, anxiety and hopelessness. This is caused by the wish to own a camera and have the world agree you own the best camera in the world, and then be hired all the time as the owner of said camera. Would that life were so simple. If you want a no brainer camera then C300 in Wide DR is surely the better (though soon to be trumped) choice. The Epic is simply finer, with a ton of options that requires a bit more care to get the best from it. For me personally as a content producer and camera person, I always felt the Epic was better than me and took that as a challenge to try and get better. When I review footage in RedCine and see footage where we nailed it I feel so happy that I am looking at the movies, not a video, and that is a good feeling.
 
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