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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon and Leica lenses...

I would take the Summilux-Cs over the Zeiss Master Primes every time. The Leica's manage to have insane resolution while still having a smooth character.

Perhaps you should ask Ketch again on Wednesday, if he's anything like me the more time you spend with the Leica's, the more you fall in love...

Cheers - #19
 
I've spent the most time behind Master Primes, Ultra Primes, and Primo glass. However, after several shoots and sort of creepy technical tests with the Leica Summilux-C I'd have to say the LSCs are my favorite primes on the market. Resolving power and coatings are really the thing. And they have some flavor to the image, which I like.

One thing I'll give a tip of the hat to with the Master Primes is that "weightless" feel on the focus movement. I think that's pretty cool. The MPs are also easier to service if that's something that comes into play here.

However, I will say I did purchase my Schneider Cine-Xenar IIIs over the Ultra Primes. So you know. I'm crazy like that. They are alarmingly nice to use and actually have one of my favorite out of focus bokeh looks out there. Also, having the longer lengths 50, 75, 95mm being telecentric they have a really unique feel to the focus pull without breathing. I'd call it if anything "pillowing". Unique.

The Summicron-C Primes will be ones to look out for. Real curious how a full set of those performs. Those against my Cine-Xenars is a fight I both want and don't want to see.
 
Yes I have made no mentioning of how smoothly and gentle soft is the Focus on Master Primes, vs. the much stiffer of the Leica's, and I of course don't like it when it is stiff, and that is an other element I have been fighting for in designing of my lenses... Way better IMO to have such "weightless" as you described Phil, in the focus movement, easily handle by even the smallest of Focus Motors.

Again, I also Love the new Leica Summilux C Primes, and that is why I am very happy to have them on set in this few days to shoot my short on Dragon... ;)
 
Phil Holland said:
I've spent the most time behind Master Primes, Ultra Primes, and Primo glass. However, after several shoots and sort of creepy technical tests with the Leica Summilux-C I'd have to say the LSCs are my favorite primes on the market. Resolving power and coatings are really the thing. And they have some flavor to the image, which I like.

One thing I'll give a tip of the hat to with the Master Primes is that "weightless" feel on the focus movement. I think that's pretty cool. The MPs are also easier to service if that's something that comes into play here.

However, I will say I did purchase my Schneider Cine-Xenar IIIs over the Ultra Primes. So you know. I'm crazy like that. They are alarmingly nice to use and actually have one of my favorite out of focus bokeh looks out there. Also, having the longer lengths 50, 75, 95mm being telecentric they have a really unique feel to the focus pull without breathing. I'd call it if anything "pillowing". Unique.

The Summicron-C Primes will be ones to look out for. Real curious how a full set of those performs. Those against my Cine-Xenars is a fight I both want and don't want to see.
Click to expand...

But there still will be a huge price difference, won't there?

What's the Xenars? $45K for the set? And the lowest I heard for the summicron-c set (today again from band pro) was 70K (though I'm not entirely sure if he was referring to € or $ at the moment ... Hehehe )

and also : who knows when they will be available. So six Xenars in hand are worth .... Well you catch my drift :)
 
70? When I put my name on a set right after NAB, it was more like 100. I certainly wouldn't mind a price drop. I am so going to miss my mini S4's (which also have that "weightless" focusing).
 
Ok. So from BandPro Germany the price will be 72.200 € which is stated to be fixed for the foreseeable future.

So the $100K is about right. Converted this is $96.400

Sorry about the confusion.
 
With the smaller size and still good light intake at T1.8, they could be really special. Physically they are smaller, on par with Ultra Primes?

I have my name on the list at Band Pro in anticipation. I'd still consider Ultra primes. They have a full line, they'll be around for years and with the Dragon sensor light intake should be less of a problem. I think the Dragon release will bring up the value of UPs, but I haven't used Ups yet.

I'll have to check out your Cine-Xenars. Was that the set that came late at Duclos for SALT III?

Summicron C's are still a year or so out?

Phil Holland said:
The Summicron-C Primes will be ones to look out for. Real curious how a full set of those performs. Those against my Cine-Xenars is a fight I both want and don't want to see.
Click to expand...
 
Who knows, in a year 72.200 € could be worth 72k USD.

Patrick Grossien said:
Ok. So from BandPro Germany the price will be 72.200 € which is stated to be fixed for the foreseeable future.

So the $100K is about right. Converted this is $96.400

Sorry about the confusion.
Click to expand...
 
Will Keir said:
With the smaller size and still good light intake at T1.8, they could be really special. Physically they will be on par with Ultra Primes?

I have my name on the list at Band Pro in anticipation. I'd still consider Ultra primes. They have a full line, they be around for years and with the Dragon sensor light intake should be less of a problem.

Summicron C's are still a year or so out?
Click to expand...

The Leica Summicron-C Primes are all T2 (T2-22), a stop slower than the Summilux-C Primes. I hear a few sets will actually be done this year. I have no idea how many, but it's good on Leica to knock them out and deliver them before the year is out. I'm impressed by that turn around actually.
 
Is the Dragon sensor going to resolve more LP/MM than 80-100?

KETCH ROSSi said:
For now, I can say, MP's way better build design, even so over a decade old, Leica choose to go old style conservative on it, not my favorites...


Size, Weight, Resolve power, all Leica's wins.
Click to expand...
 
Smaller size and weight right?

Phil Holland said:
The Leica Summicron-C Primes are all T2 (T2-22), a stop slower than the Summilux-C Primes. I hear a few sets will actually be done this year. I have no idea how many, but it's good on Leica to knock them out and deliver them before the year is out. I'm impressed by that turn around actually.
Click to expand...
 
Will Keir said:
Is the Dragon sensor going to resolve more LP/MM than 80-100?
Click to expand...

Even a quick run of the impossible best-case scenario numbers for resolution puts the 6K full sensor capping out at exactly 100lp/mm... Dragon Monochrome for example (since it's not a Bayer pattern CFA), will resolve exactly 100lp/mm..

But the quick answer is NO. But most modern lenses are definitely out performing 100lp/mm, certainly at picture center and many at the corners... So that's good, you don't want to be straining the limits of what the lens can deliver to the sensor... unless that's an effect you are going after.
 
You do realize that some of the best cinematography ever created was done on lenses that were not able to resolve 6K - and that the sharpest pictures are not always the prettiest, most effective, nor most engaging right? I'm not saying tech specs don;t matter, Im saying that the most sharpness possible is not always the best choice, and that many other factors in lens selection are as important or more so.
 
Which is why I concluded with the statement, "unless that's an effect you are going for..." Which I often am!
 
Will Keir said:
What lens set do you like more:

1) Master Primes

2) Leica Summilux C Primes.
Click to expand...


Master Primes... ;)

Despite the fact that we are using the Leica Summulix C Primes on "The RED dress" short right now, which was mainly a factor of weight as I wanted to use the MōVI, and Master Primes are too heavy for it, as even the Leica's just made it to the edge of usability on it.

And as I said, resolution and power of resolve might be better on Leica's but absolutely everything else, aside the Look do to the Leica's Glass coating process, Master Primes are better in every way as far as build, design, engineering, Focus mechanics and so on, and that is why my own FF+ Cine Lens design is inspired by it.
 
Phil Holland said:
The Leica Summicron-C Primes are all T2 (T2-22), a stop slower than the Summilux-C Primes. I hear a few sets will actually be done this year. I have no idea how many, but it's good on Leica to knock them out and deliver them before the year is out. I'm impressed by that turn around actually.
Click to expand...

From what I understand what I got from the Band Pro booth, is that the Summilux Cs are fully manual labor and the glass is especially difficult to get because of it's high quality. That's why they have so long waiting lists and are more expensive. In argumentum e contrario the summicron Cs have neither the extremely high quality glass nor the full manual labor so these will be coming out a lot faster. Did I note already that if I would have placed an order at IBC they were suggesting a delivery date beginning of next year?!
 
Will Keir said:
Who knows, in a year 72.200 € could be worth 72k USD.
Click to expand...

That's what I read in between the lines, too - that's why I said "for the foreseeable future" ;)

(well not the exact amount you mentioned, but a possible bigger price drop when the first - and maybe second - run on these is over...)
 
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