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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon and IR ND's and Hot mirrors

Phil Holland said:
I don't have a set of Mitomos here unfortunately. They are the "newest" to the street and I'd love to test them out.
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Phil, have you asked our Burbank office to see if you can get a set of True ND filters to evaluate? The Mitomo filters are really picking up a head of steam with adoption by DP, DIT, Major rental houses and even a director due to the very minimal color shift introduced across the densities or batches.
 
I have a Epic-X MX and I'm trying to decide whether to invest in a set of IRNDs or NDs with separate Tru-Cut IR 750 filter. Specifically, I am looking at the "Schneider 4x5.65" Essential Filter Kit for RED" vs a set of Pancro IRNDs.

I want a setup that is future-proof (Dragon) as well as functional with cameras from other manufacturers.

What would you guys suggest?
 
No need for IR NDs according to Phil Holland who I believe has tested them himself.

Just use regular NDs. Tired this on a shoot and no issues.

Adam Eden said:
I thought i would start this thread as i started one about the epic that went very quiet.

Since i am waiting for my Epic M to be upgraded to Dragon i was wondering does the dragon require the use of IR nd's with a hot mirror in front like the Epic.

I have been on a shoot for the last week where i was still getting IR pollution on my Epic M with 1.5 + .9IRND with a hot mirror in front so i could sit at T1.3 on my super speeds.

Has anyone tried this on the dragon as i am in the market for a new set or IRND's since i have 2 sets of normal ND's and a hot mirror and i don't want to waste my money if the dragon doesn't need them.
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Future Proof Solution: Don't worry about the IRNDs if you go Dragon, you won't need them, your good with your basic NDs.

JP Perry said:
I have a Epic-X MX and I'm trying to decide whether to invest in a set of IRNDs or NDs with separate Tru-Cut IR 750 filter. Specifically, I am looking at the "Schneider 4x5.65" Essential Filter Kit for RED" vs a set of Pancro IRNDs.

I want a setup that is future-proof (Dragon) as well as functional with cameras from other manufacturers.

What would you guys suggest?
Click to expand...
 
Just based on first principles I would postulate that IRND filters would have no adverse affect on the Dragon sensor. Assuming that the OPLF has a heavy IR cut already built in to it any IR cut from the filter is irrelevant. But I see Mr. Holland has said that the Tiffen hot mirrors would cause a colour shift so it is may be more complex so only a test of a particular brand filter would give you a scientific result.
 
I actually think using IRNDs can be the cause of some people finding their camera noisy. I have a feeling that the IR Cut in the new OLPF probably gives the image a green cast that is dialled out internally by adding Magenta (which pushes the Red and Blue channels). If you then use heavy IRND, you add even more Green that needs to be dialled out through the white balance, meaning the Red and Blue channels are being pushed even more! Seeing as outdoors you are getting plenty of blue light already, you end up with an underexposed red channel that is being pushed quite a bit which results in some Red Noise.

Just my theory at the moment with the few tests I've seen with the new OLPF.
 
Sit in a color session for a finished project, where IRND's and regular ND's have been swapped out in the same scene, and you'll see what a fucking nightmare it can be to fix.
 
Sam Winzar said:
I actually think using IRNDs can be the cause of some people finding their camera noisy. I have a feeling that the IR Cut in the new OLPF probably gives the image a green cast that is dialled out internally by adding Magenta (which pushes the Red and Blue channels). If you then use heavy IRND, you add even more Green that needs to be dialled out through the white balance, meaning the Red and Blue channels are being pushed even more! Seeing as outdoors you are getting plenty of blue light already, you end up with an underexposed red channel that is being pushed quite a bit which results in some Red Noise.

Just my theory at the moment with the few tests I've seen with the new OLPF.
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Funny to see this mentioned-- I only recently received my Dragon (and I am loving it so far-- I now understand what people mean when they say they would have a hard time going back) but I have noticed I am dialing in about -10 to -15 magenta in any given situation where I would have just gone with a 0 tint previously. This is across multiple lenses and light temperatures. Adjusting the tint makes everything look fine again, but 0 looks extremely green to me compared to M-X. Anybody else noticed this?
 
I just bought a set of IRNDs. So just so I'm clear, will I have issues shooting with them or should I sell and get regular ND??
 
Hi
Thanks for the above details
but my problem is while using motion mount with my dragons new olpf ,
as motion mount comes with IR filter built in it I can feel a colour shift and even the linear polariser makes the blacks look real rich high lite less ,is there any way we can turn off both the IR and linear polariser filter when it's not required in a motion mount?
 
Scott,

-10 to -15 seems to be a fair amount of Magenta. Are you doing this when you have ND filters attached? Of course your personnal taste may mean you like a magenta tint which is generally preferable to a green tint. You would need to post images but if its working for you is their a problem?
 
Format Hitech Firecrest ND and Grads

Format Hitech Firecrest ND and Grads

If your buying ND's Id strongly suggest checking out Format Filters Firecrest ND's they are by far the most neutral ND's Ive ever seen.

Ill publish some tests when we have had chance to test them further.
 
David Callahan said:
Why are you guys recommending Formatt Firecrest? According to this blogpost at Ablecine they are IRND's. But with Dragon you don't need the IR cut. Just wondering. I ask because I'm trying to figure out what to buy to replace my old IRND set.
Thanks.
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David! This exemplifies my criticism in the naming convention on the Firecrests.

I just did a concise test here:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?123352-Close-Look-Formatt-Hitech-Firecrest-IRND-Filters

While they go by "IRND" these are a different beast when compared to what we have traditionally thought "IRND" is. These are not tinted dyed. These are multicoated and cut IR light in a different manner and in the process are extremely neutral across densities.

They should come up with something new to help illustrate that they aren't simple IRNDs. MCND or something.
 
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