Downsampling 8K to 4K - Post Software vs. In-Body ProRes

[Ryan Chernin]

Why does the in-body downsampled ProRes 4K look SO much cleaner than the footage I capture at 8K then downscale to 4K in post? Does the in-body ProRes add noise reduction or something? Or am I doing something wrong with scaling in Davinci?

Either way, super exciting how great the ProRes footage looks straight out of Raptor. Shot a bunch of stuff last night at 3200-4000 ISO last night and really saw the benefits of the downsampling.

 

[Phil Holland]

Don't know exactly what they are doing, how they are scaling, or any processing involved. Generally ProRes as a capture codec is designed to provide a very "deliverable" image. Similar to other cameras in this space and how they differ from their RAW codecs.

I've had maybe more conversations in the last year about RAW workflows versus anything else, mainly due to the influx of many of the new Komodo owners not working with RAW codecs before. RAW in it's purest form will likely be noisier than any encoded chroma subsampled or mezzanine codec.

That said, Monstro/Raptor/Komodo owner here. The vast, vast majority of my shoots in the last several years haven't received noise reduction as there are subtle gains to pure tonal and color detail information being in there.

 

[Ryan Chernin]

Don't know exactly what they are doing, how they are scaling, or any processing involved. Generally ProRes as a capture codec is designed to provide a very "deliverable" image. Similar to other cameras in this space and how they differ from their RAW codecs.

I've had maybe more conversations in the last year about RAW workflows versus anything else, mainly due to the influx of many of the new Komodo owners not working with RAW codecs before. RAW in it's purest form will likely be noisier than any encoded chroma subsampled or mezzanine codec.

That said, Monstro/Raptor/Komodo owner here. The vast, vast majority of my shoots in the last several years haven't received noise reduction as there are subtle gains to pure tonal and color detail information being in there.

Thanks for weighing in, Phil! I don't usually add noise reduction to my red raw footage either, but I'm talking about 4000 ISO here. I've never shot that high on anything besides a Gemini and been happy without noise reduction. Raptor definitely changed my mind about 3200 ISO. I guess I was just curious, if not noise reduction, then what is ProRes doing that makes the footage look that much more "deliverable" straight out of camera at something like 4000 ISO? I would guess that scaling does contribute, but since scaling alone can't deliver that look, do you have any rough guesses as to what else might be going on there?

I've worked with RAW codecs before, but admittedly I've only started trying to understand it in more depth since *owning* a Red. I'm appreciative that RedUser has given me the chance to ask these questions from more seasoned shooters. And I'm certainly grateful for your insight here in particular.

 

[Vicky Marie Marks]

Or am I doing something wrong with scaling in Davinci?

Shoot a resolution chart or landscapes with a sharp lens. I don't have numbers right now, but 4k prores in camera is definitely more mushy than 8k r3d scaled in post. Prores proxy in camera with 24fps is nice to have though.

 

[Mark Wilkinson]

Are you downsampling with Premium debayer in DaVinci...? I always forget to reset the default. And setting the timeline to 4k, not upscaling the 1920?

Sorry if these are obvious...

 

[Björn Benckert]

Have not tested my self. But if you shoot raw on raptor then you actually shoot compressed raw.... then when you make a prores in post you dip into yet another compression which is never really a good thing to do. So that could be part of it / what compression setting you had in camera when capturing the r3d as I assume the in camera prores file is straight from the sensor with only debayer and damsampling / no other compression codec involved before it get baked into the prores codec.

Then yes, also important to have a clean pipe when scaling 8k footage in post. Good scaling algoritms etc.