Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

[Kyle Presley]

This is an open letter to Red.

Scarlet-X is not Scarlet. Since 2008 Scarlet has been a modular camera in two well known flavors: Fixed and Interchangeable. They were touted at 3K, 120 fps, and with HDRx at 60 fps. All for a price "around $6K," according to Ted Schilowitz who said this many many times.

What Red is calling Scarlet-X shoots 4K at 30 fps, 3K at 48 fps, etc. With an S35 sensor. The best part, it costs about $14,000. Wow...

Red defends by saying that 2/3" is too small, and 3K is not big enough either. They also say the fixed lens was not doable after all. While that is sad for a LOT of people, what was wrong with the interchangeable version?

Here is what they are not saying:
Scarlet as we knew it had more processing power than the new fangled Scarlet-X. Do the math. Yet, Scarlet-X will cost more than twice as much as Scarlet. It appears that the original Scarlet could handle 2.5 TIMES the data throughput as Scarlet-X

3K @ 48 fps vs. 3K @ 120, yet there is an inverse relationship when it comes to price. $6000 vs. $14000? Really? What is Red not telling us?

OK, so 3K is not professional? Let's pretend for a moment that I agree with you (I don't). Say Red allowed a Mysterium-X upgrade path for Scarlet interchangeable, at the same cost that the upgrade costs for a Red One ($5750).

Scarlet would then cost about $12,000 for a working package. It would cost presumably about $9500 for the brain only (about the same as the new fangled Scarlet-X, brain only). Here is the difference, given what we know about Scarlet's hardware:

Upgraded Sensor Scarlet: 5K @ at least 30 fps, 4K @ at least 60 fps, 3K @ 120 fps. Sounds awesome right?
What-we-got-N3 Scarlet: 5K @ 12 fps, 4K at 25 fps, 3K @ 48 fps, etc... Something smells here...

Another tidbit of information: Scarlet-X is made up of hardware (ASIC) that did not pass QA to be put in Epic. Same sensor as Epic; same hardware as Epic, albeit crippled. What does that mean? It means Scarlet-X is not some "pie in the sky" revolutionary RED invention. It is a concoction thrown together at the last minute to compete with Canon.

RED, I will not accuse you of fraud, but this feels like bait and switch. Intentional or not, "everything is subject to change" or not, the effect is the same.

 

[Nick Ambrose]

You can always go make your own camera, that way you will be 100% happy! I hear it isn't too much of a challenge

 

[Kyle Presley]

You can always go make your own camera, that way you will be 100% happy! I hear it isn't too much of a challenge

I would be willing to give Red a pass if they would say that the former DSMC Scarlet was too challenging to offer at the price that they endlessly pitched. And that they were sorry for wasting our time. That is not the case, however.

 

[Aaron Newsome]

Kyle sounds mad. You should be happy that RED is delivering cameras that are way better and priced lower than anything else out there.

 

[Dan Kanes]

Hey - things can change dude.

There is always a Canon XF305 for sale over at B and H if you want one.

 

[Maxi Claudio]

Business, is always based on having tiers of products at different price points for different consumers. I think a $10k+ camera matches nicely with their $50k solution. Get a lot of users shooting Scarlet, familiar with the workflow, until they have a need or budget for an Epic. Frankly, I think Scarlet's specs is an AMAZING value. I thought a 2/3 format was way to small for today and the future.

 

[Kyle Presley]

Kyle sounds mad. You should be happy that RED is delivering cameras that are way better and priced lower than anything else out there.

I am mad. But, I speak for many many people who feel the same way. Scarlet may be alone in its offerings currently, but there are several 4K cameras being developed right now at a much lower cost. I would rather have the product that Red offered, or know why they pulled the plug. It simply is not right or ethical, otherwise.

 

[Doug Beatty]

The $14K is the kit price, but I understand the temptation to choose the most expensive Scarlet configuration pricing to make your argument even more inflammatory. So to be prudent, you should edit your original statement to reflect the $9,700 (after Jan 1) brain price.

Then you play the 'what if' game on the cost of upgrading from a 2/3 sensor to MX. Can you tell me for sure if the Scarlet's board can support the throughput of MX? I'll play devil's advocate and say that it can't, so you would have to replace the board at an additional cost (let's say $2k to be modest). That would take your upgraded Scarlet interchangeable price to $14K.

I'll shut up now.

There were estimates on the 2/3 sensor, but that was a while ago now.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Kyle...

I completely understand you and in some way support your frustrations, as I wanted the Fixed SCARLET real bad too... You fill betrayed I get it, I do to, and believe me so does Jim...

NO ONE HAS WON HERE, we all LOST a great camera form coming to market... AT list for now.

However, when you start getting a tone of accusing a respectable company like RED, of recycling unused parts to make something up last minute, well, this is not right,
and I stop supporting you and or listening to you at this very moment, I suggest an adjustment in the tone spoken here, and the discussion might go much further, or I see this getting to an insult to an other.


Discussions and frustrations need to be expressed in always a respectful and civil matter, your is neither... Just saying... This is not the right way to be heard, while in some one else's home.

 

[Chris Adler]

This is why Apple and Canon don't pre-announce internal development plans. Some people latch on to them. RED's openness and sense of community is very different than most companies I've ever encountered. Clearly some people can't handle it. The majority appreciates it.

 

[Emanuel A.]

Red defends by saying that (...) 3K is not big enough either.

It is not even surely a standard, 1080p it is though. I have no clue how Jim could hold the whole 3K thing when we had him to preach us the 4K merit against 1080p. Didn't you notice? The point is he is fully right.

S35 4K is not only the best choice but the only one will place RED forward.

 

[Kyle Presley]

Kyle...

I completely understand you and in some way support your frustrations, as I wanted the Fixed SCARLET real bad too... You fill betrayed I get it, I do to, and believe me so does Jim...

NO ONE HAS WON HERE, we all LOST a great camera form coming to market... AT list for now.

However, when you start getting a tone of accusing a respectable company like RED, of recycling unused parts to make something up last minute, well, this is not right,
and I stop supporting you and or listening to you at this very moment, I suggest an adjustment in the tone spoken here, and the discussion might go much further, or I see this getting to an insult to an other.


Discussions and frustrations need to be expressed in always a respectful and civil matter, your is neither... Just saying... This is not the right way to be heard, while in some one else's home.

Ketch I respect you a ton. But this is something that was stated very plainly by Jarred:

ASICs that weren't fast enough for EPIC… just became a gold mine for Scarlet.

 

[Emanuel A.]

The majority appreciates it.

Exactly. Majority is measured in numbers. As much as a successful product. Losers have no place in RED program, should not have in RED clientele schedule either.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Ketch I respect you a ton. But this is something that was stated very plainly by Jarred:

I appreciate your respect, and so do I respect you Kyle, and for this I said what I said, as I fill you, we all wanted it, Jim as well, but I fill this is not the right way...

 

[L. Langer]

I hope you brought a poncho Kyle. You're about to experience some torrential precipitation.

 

[Nik Harper]

Kyle, Jim says in the scarlet announcement feedback thread (I think it's in that one) that they had terminal issues with the fixed lens. I'm not sure if that's what you were wanting to hear or if you want a personalized apology from Red. But I'm pretty sure they aren't happy about having to waste tons money on developing a camera that never gets to come out. I see where you're coming from, I just don't see it as Red trying to screw us over. The camera they delivered is quite amazing, especially for the price, I think we can all agree on that. Anyways, sorry you feel the way you do, I'm excited to get mine and I hope there's something that changes your mind about everything!

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

Yeah, Kyle, usually I support you man. I too wanted the fixed. But things change...Jim has never stopped saying that. Rather than taking it out in a public forum go motivate yourself and take it out with some passionate work.

 

[David Stewart]

Seems Red has become a religion here to many. I'm moving on.

 

[Mohamed Younis]

I really feel bad for the people who can only afford a 3-8k camera. I used to be one of them. I couldnt even afford a 5D. Red clearly promised them a camera. I do have a feeling that RED will deliver on that promise sooner or later. Till then, you can rent a very cheap professional 4K camera and nothing in the market is even close to it. Guess who made that camera?
That's right Canon. jk

 

[L. Langer]

I wouldn't call it a religion. Unless Jim has started wearing funky colored robes and an ornate helm with bull horns to work, it's definitely just a philosophy applied to a business at this point.