Don't forget...

[Brent J. Craig]

How about onboard GPS data? Having all of the location data would be great but even if you just grabbed the time data you could easily match recordings from different cameras whether they were 20 feet apart or halfway around the world.

I'm hoping for a complete "Camera Position" module that would include differential GPS, multi-axis tilt and roll sensors, and a digital compass. Camera height is important as well - how to solve that technical challenge?

This information would be very useful for visual effects, not to mention scientific and military work.

GPS would need the ability to use an external or wireless antenna for indoor use.

Using GPS to sync timecode is a proven and useful technology as well.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Any thoughts on the Cinema Module [and ENG module, Composite Module, etc.] idea?

I think it would be a more constructive if you dropped the references to "ENG" and "ENG/EFP" and plugged in "EFP" for reference to your module suggestion. RED One is rarely used in ENG (electronic news gathering), but is used extensively in EFP (electronic field production) - as will Epic and Scarlet be. The fixed lens Scarlet may be used in small station ENG and network risky situation ENG (think war), but essentially RED One, Epic (s35 & FF 35), and Scarlet (various models), beyond their obvious digital cinema uses, are/will be used widely in EFP production - not ENG.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Gibby loves to write about his experience and accomplishments in every post, but when you talk to him in person, all he wants to know about is how you are doing and to share in the joys of your accomplishments.

LOL - got me there Jay!

Seriously - when I reference my work experience on forums it isn't coming from ego, but rather to let readers know how I arrived at the opinions I express - in hopes that added info will explain clearly that the info I present isn't a casual opinion, but developed over time. There are a large number of people here who are new to the motion media industry. My thinking is that maybe by letting them know what my career path has been it may help them consider the diverse options before them for their own careers.

I don't write about my career and accomplishments in "every post", but perhaps more than I should. Hopefully my comments above will shed some light on my motivation for that. Longtime members of RED User have seen many posts by me referencing my experience. I realize that, but this board has grown exponentially and there are constantly new members and lurkers.

I think a starting point for scholarly discussion on anything is to understand the background of the speaker - then in context analyze what he/she says. In my view, if I can get my arms around someone's background, then I can clearly deduce how/why they formed their opinions. Nobody pulls behavior out of a hat. There is a cause/effect relationship to everything we do. Understanding that leads to an understanding of how/why they do or say things.

Nobody is born knowing anything. We all absorb info as we grow. I really believe that learning taken correctly determines that: "The more we learn the more we should realize we don't know".

I've taken a lot of time to share what I know with the members of RED User. It has been a symbiotic relationship - I've contributed here, and I've learned here. That's the best kind of situation in my opinion.

Yes Jay, I'm really interested in people, and I really do want to know how they are doing, and if I can help them with anything. Many people have helped me throughout my life and career. In helping others I do honor to those who have helped me.

Hopefully my words above will help members and visitors here know what motivates me. It is good to be a member of this community. I definitely respect the diversity here.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

LOL - got me there Jay!

Seriously - when I reference my work experience on forums it isn't coming from ego, but rather to let readers know how I arrived at the opinions I express - in hopes that added info will explain clearly that the info I present isn't a casual opinion, but developed over time. There are a large number of people here who are new to the motion media industry. My thinking is that maybe by letting them know what my career path has been it may help them consider the diverse options before them for their own careers.

I don't write about my career and accomplishments in "every post", but perhaps more than I should. Hopefully my comments above will shed some light on my motivation for that. Longtime members of RED User have seen many posts by me referencing my experience. I realize that, but this board has grown exponentially and there are constantly new members and lurkers.

I think a starting point for scholarly discussion on anything is to understand the background of the speaker - then in context analyze what he/she says. In my view, if I can get my arms around someone's background, then I can clearly deduce how/why they formed their opinions. Nobody pulls behavior out of a hat. There is a cause/effect relationship to everything we do. Understanding that leads to an understanding of how/why they do or say things.

Nobody is born knowing anything. We all absorb info as we grow. I really believe that learning taken correctly determines that: "The more we learn the more we should realize we don't know".

I've taken a lot of time to share what I know with the members of RED User. It has been a symbiotic relationship - I've contributed here, and I've learned here. That's the best kind of situation in my opinion.

Yes Jay, I'm really interested in people, and I really do want to know how they are doing, and if I can help them with anything. Many people have helped me throughout my life and career. In helping others I do honor to those who have helped me.

Hopefully my words above will help members and visitors here know what motivates me. It is good to be a member of this community. I definitely respect the diversity here.

Well Steve,

when I first started reading your posts, some of them long in did, I tough that I finally meat my match as far as some one having a BIG Ego, nonetheless I always enjoy the reads as they do present the reader with a very comprehensive explanation of were when and how you do get to your conclusions and there for I believe that it is an importantant factor as to credit your self in order to be trusted in your professional opinions and advises.

When I first meat you during L.A.R.T. in LA, and then again during Sirens of TI here in Vegas, I came across a completely different person then I could ever had espected, in did we talk more about me and my projects (way more ), and found out that you are in did a peoples person and you do care far more about others achievements then your own, truly refreshing and inspiring to have meat you ( and your absolutely Lovely Lady Pamala ), so keep those post coming Steve... I reading!!

ciao

 

[Clayton Harper]

Just be careful throwing around the "band aid" comments though - it doesn't help the conversation along...

Every passing day makes mini-XLR and mini-HDSDI look more and more like a "boo-boo" to me. What's a better metaphor?

 

[Clayton Harper]

Hopefully my words above will help members and visitors here know what motivates me.

Sometimes it seems like you have a chip on your shoulder about "cine-style" union people looking down on ENG or EFP or whatever you want to call it. This is understandable as most union camera people come off as pissy "know-it-alls". However, your comments about eye-focusing are not helpful.

The techniques developed to allow for focusing without seeing the image were born from not being able to see unexposed film but they continue to be used even with modern video assist or digital cinema production (genesis, F35) because of repeatability. Every tool in that picture is used to help nail focus or send an image to video village to decide if a new take is needed. These crews can't change this manner of working because they are the "hands" of people making the choices. Not all of us are emmy award-winning producers who can do whatever we want and just say "meh" when it comes to getting shots in focus. We have to be sure it's perfect when someone else puts their eyes on it later. A better metal in the mount and the ability to cleanly mount focus assist tools is prolly the answer to this, not spot checking focus. Good lord, just adding an SD output and a Fisher 3-Pin power port would solve half the problem.

Also, God bless Brook Willard. This dude has put so much time and energy into thinking about how to make the camera better for world-class cinema production and every time the Red team acts like he has an attitude problem. Is this because he's young? Personally, I don't care because he has come up with some of the most thoughtful and well-formulated criticisms on these boards

Jim and team, you can't crowd-source your product and then stand back and hope only for raves. It seems to me the people drinking the Kool-aid here tend to be aspirants and close Red confidants. Those people with lots of real world cine production experience get the beat-down for offering up their experience and ideas for free.

Obviously those of us used to using Arri, Aaton, Panavision gear are spoiled in thinking we can have the same thing for 30k. Manufacturing and machining ain't like that. However, some small choices can be made within the parameters already established and that was what I thought reduser was supposed to be all about.

The invar/stainless/aluminum discussion is a step in the right direction. Just give us the prices and let us vote with our wallets.

</end rant>

Let me just finish by saying I love the current Red One and don't expect to be that much happier with the newer cameras. Red has already delivered the miracle. Now we just get a cheaper, low-power, faster miracle.

 

[Rob Gardner]

Well, whatever you want to say about Gibby, you must admit, he is a man of few words...

 

[Bruce Allen]

That was a great post Clayton. I too really, really hope that people like Brook, Matt Uhry, etc keep up their postings in 2009... charm school or not. They are a strong component of the "signal" part in the S/N ratio of Reduser and obviously have RED's best interests at heart.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Casey Green]

good work Jay... New years resolution for all of us

I think most of the bases have been covered here. The main issue seems to be how constructive criticism is phrased and that people try to put themselves in other's shoes when suggesting features and improvements for the Camera.

Personally, I would have liked to have seen this thread end on the good note above. ;-)

Happy Holidays, Everyone!

 

[Jannard]

Every passing day makes mini-XLR and mini-HDSDI look more and more like a "boo-boo" to me. What's a better metaphor?

Clayton... we get it. We have changed to full-size XLRs going forward. What would you like us to do for you? Take your camera back, build new RED ONE boards and fix it? We have announced that the RED ONE was our 1st camera and accepted the fact that we need to do better with ever piece of our program. We have listened very carefully to our customers and made a huge amount of changes based on the feedback for models coming out. All we can do is improve going forward... so, what exactly is your point and what are you trying to say?

Jim

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Sometimes it seems like you have a chip on your shoulder about "cine-style" union people looking down on ENG or EFP or whatever you want to call it. This is understandable as most union camera people come off as pissy "know-it-alls". However, your comments about eye-focusing are not helpful.

The techniques developed to allow for focusing without seeing the image were born from not being able to see unexposed film but they continue to be used even with modern video assist or digital cinema production (genesis, F35) because of repeatability. Every tool in that picture is used to help nail focus or send an image to video village to decide if a new take is needed. These crews can't change this manner of working because they are the "hands" of people making the choices. Not all of us are emmy award-winning producers who can do whatever we want and just say "meh" when it comes to getting shots in focus. We have to be sure it's perfect when someone else puts their eyes on it later. A better metal in the mount and the ability to cleanly mount focus assist tools is prolly the answer to this, not spot checking focus. Good lord, just adding an SD output and a Fisher 3-Pin power port would solve half the problem.

Also, God bless Brook Willard. This dude has put so much time and energy into thinking about how to make the camera better for world-class cinema production and every time the Red team acts like he has an attitude problem. Is this because he's young? Personally, I don't care because he has come up with some of the most thoughtful and well-formulated criticisms on these boards

Jim and team, you can't crowd-source your product and then stand back and hope only for raves. It seems to me the people drinking the Kool-aid here tend to be aspirants and close Red confidants. Those people with lots of real world cine production experience get the beat-down for offering up their experience and ideas for free.

Obviously those of us used to using Arri, Aaton, Panavision gear are spoiled in thinking we can have the same thing for 30k. Manufacturing and machining ain't like that. However, some small choices can be made within the parameters already established and that was what I thought reduser was supposed to be all about.

The invar/stainless/aluminum discussion is a step in the right direction. Just give us the prices and let us vote with our wallets.

</end rant>

Let me just finish by saying I love the current Red One and don't expect to be that much happier with the newer cameras. Red has already delivered the miracle. Now we just get a cheaper, low-power, faster miracle.

I'm so sorry to see our new year's resolution killed so quickly. And Bruce, don't think for a second that people who write combative posts are listened too, therefore do not encourage them. If you want someone to go to bat for you, then you must get them on your side.

Being "right" is not all it's cracked up to be.

Jay

 

[JanneJansson]

Being "right" is not all it's cracked up to be.

Jay

That is RIGHT! To be the dumbass that do/write somthing completely "wrong" is often most rewarding. Just look at red To follow old ideas is simple, to form a new one is hard.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

I'm going to take the high road here. No more getting into fights that will simply lead me right back where I started.

The Epic/Scarlet system is an attempt by RED to answer as many complaints/suggestions as possible users have given to the R1 system. If they stay on schedule, they will have managed to do this within 3 years of their first released camera.

I'm sure they will only continue to get better.

Jay

 

[Daniel Reichenbach]

To have a good knowledge about camera and film means not, to have a good knowledge about behavior. Even if I consider, that some of the guys who act on reduser like a caterpillar in a rose garden (or was it the elephant in...), want's to share some good comments and ideas, I expect more calm and fairness toward the RED team.

 

[tj williams]

Merry Christmas Here is my wish list.

Merry Christmas Here is my wish list.

May the Spirit of Christmas possess us all. We all want different aks. some even want different stuff for different jobs.

We've had our RED1 configured in just about all the ways shown... just not with the cool looking RED matt box. We always have a bunch of cables. incl minimum lcd/efv/ with often Audio or TC reference and usually HDSDI out
I think all the renders should show minimum cables! This may encourage elegance with cables! just my two bits worth.

Here is what I'd like for Christmas!

RED Modules. I'd like it if the brain could connect by cable to the other modules for several uses where I'd like the camera to be smaller:
IE Hand Held waist shooting doco.with all the other stuff in a backpack, underwater on a stick mount RE Iconix, or in a very small aerial mount I can borrow fm the local tv station. I'd like to be able to start stop from either the remote pack or from the camera. For the backpack waist shooting doco use I'd like the small lcd to plug into the brain. or a very small junction box on the rear of the brain. If you have never shot this way holding the camera at waist level and looking down does not make people nearly so aware that you are shooting.

Non-RED onboard batteries. including AB Vmount and remote brick. I had to have a cable made to remote Cine 60 4 pin XLR wiring. Red should supply such a cable as an accessory for dolly work or long running. I use an AB Box with two batts on it so we never need to power down while lion the dolly. I'd like it if the EPIC/Scarlet (ES) could address all makers batts re rate of discharge indicators etc. Hoping the new Lemo power in on the ES cameras has the same size and pin configuration to use my wire and my Batt plates.

RED Storage, My raid mags from RED are great, new Compact flash is coming out all the time. I have been on location when our box with the flash cards did not show. I would have gone to the local Costco etc and got some flash cards to see me thru the day but as most of you know they wil not mount if not from RED. I also lost a job this year because I could not get a RED Body to Esata cable which would enable me to run directly into the clients massive storage for a 12 hour recording without stopping. These would be nice accessories which I don't think will cut into RED Flash and Mag sales.

I'd like full size XLR Connectors (Thanks for this promise Jim!) it would also be nice if they face somewhat to the rear instead of out to the side. If they must be flush with the side then oriented so right angle connectors will attach without blocking the next one. Standard Digital input and the multi. pin that all the ENG sound people have on the end of their snakes would also be nice.

We use the Preston Fiz It would be nice if RED sold a really slick adapter to Preston/Bartek/and several of the other receiver boxes. if not probably Elemnet technica or someone will.

We have AJA Downconverters. It would be nice if RED sold a nicely integrated mount for several of the common downconverters and the common transmitters like Canatrans and Modulus. It would also be nice if this adapter could support some of the common microwave links. I would be totally amazed if RED came out with an HDSDI transmitter/receiver!!!

Ambient Lockit Box. Denecke SB-T. CineTape horn & display.
Lens Light. are all common accessories and it would be nice to see some adapters and bracketry to support them

I hope the power outputs on the ES cameras will be more robust so we can power up lenses from the front, unlike the Canon EOS adapter where the power wire has to run to the rear of the body on the RED1

Fisher 3-pin would sure be a nice out to put the multi port adapter up for lens power etc. this is such a common setup it would be nice to be Arri std here and not require an adapter.

Please don't make me keep the mini bnc breakout box. I'll be glad to loose the $500 to have hdsdi etc come out on standard BNC connectors. once again either angled to the rear or with room for right angle BNC's I often use Right angle RCA Connectors for this as they will pull out without damage to the BNCs on the camera body.

I think RED Engineers giving more thought to making the RED E/S cameras compatable with the standard input output and accessorys of both video cameras and film cameras will help us save money and work well with readily available rental gear when we need to gear up and allow us to use accessories and cables we already have for our other cameras. It's nice when accessories work the same as they do on our Sony Panasonic or Arriflex cameras. A fully loaded Epic will be much more organized looking and cleaner to operate if RED Gives thought to the basic cables and also considers the run and lie of optional cables and boxes. Hey isn't this what modularity really means?

 

[Steve Gibby]

Sometimes it seems like you have a chip on your shoulder about "cine-style" union people looking down on ENG or EFP or whatever you want to call it. This is understandable as most union camera people come off as pissy "know-it-alls".

RED One is squarely aimed at the cine and EFP industries. The DSMC cameras are clearly aimed at three different industries: cine, EFP, and digital stills. Everyone here needs to realize these intended uses for the cameras, expect input here from a diverse array of workers, and give equal respect to others here. I’m dead sure Jim and Jarred would agree with this need. Moderators here need to check their biases at the door, be respectful of all industries represented by these cameras, and al least make an attempt to understand the basic terms for the industries represented by these cameras and their users. If is seems like I have a chip on my shoulder sometimes it may be because bilateral respect between industries represented here is oftentimes lacking – not just among the members, but also among the moderators here. Respect is a 2-way street.

However, your comments about eye-focusing are not helpful.

I have a fat folder full of “Thank You” emails and PMs to me, from members and lurkers here, dating clear back to early 2006 that thank me for my insight into eye-focusing RED One. Apparently there are a lot of members and lurkers here who don’t agree with your opinion on that.

The techniques developed to allow for focusing without seeing the image were born from not being able to see unexposed film but they continue to be used even with modern video assist or digital cinema production (genesis, F35) because of repeatability. Every tool in that picture is used to help nail focus or send an image to video village to decide if a new take is needed. These crews can't change this manner of working because they are the "hands" of people making the choices. Not all of us are emmy award-winning producers who can do whatever we want and just say "meh" when it comes to getting shots in focus. We have to be sure it's perfect when someone else puts their eyes on it later. A better metal in the mount and the ability to cleanly mount focus assist tools is prolly the answer to this, not spot checking focus. Good lord, just adding an SD output and a Fisher 3-Pin power port would solve half the problem.

Narrative cinema is but one genre with the cinematic production world. In many other genres and sub-genres of cine production and EFP production, sight focusing is the norm – and quite often the very best choice of focusing. Narrative cinema may call for repeatability of focus, but these other genres of cine production and EFP production do not have a repeatability of focus need. A few examples would be sports, wildlife, travel, documentaries of various kinds, lifestyle, tourism, many business productions, and on and on. These productions are not hardlined, operators rack their own focus, there is no need for focus repeatability, crews are small, etc – thus sight focusing is almost always the best choice. Narrative cinema people here seem to think the motion media production world revolves around them and must follow their field production methods. That’s simply not the case. If your genres never call for sight focusing, fine, have at it. If your genres call for sight focusing, fine, do it. If you work in a broad range of genres and must decide for each one when to traditionally focus, or when to sight focus, great, do it. There is no right or wrong way to focus RED One – just a right or wrong way for each particular production you’re doing.

Also, God bless Brook Willard. This dude has put so much time and energy into thinking about how to make the camera better for world-class cinema production and every time the Red team acts like he has an attitude problem. Is this because he's young? Personally, I don't care because he has come up with some of the most thoughtful and well-formulated criticisms on these boards.

Yes he has put a lot of much appreciated energy into suggestions for the cinema production capabilities of RED One and the future camera – but IMO almost no attention to the EFP capabilities of any of those cameras – even though RED Team has stated from the beginning that RED One (and now the DSMC cameras) are definitely also targeted at the EFP market – and stills market now. IMO Brook is fully just zeroed in on his style of production – and many times forgets to acknowledge and be sensitive to the diversity of backgrounds represented on RED User – and then when he does, he is not very facile in the acronyms and technology needs of other industries which RED One is used in. For a mid-20’s guy a few years out of film school at Chapman College, Brook is amazingly loaded with info. IMO what RED is getting at is that Brook needs to be more sensitive sometimes in how he words his posts.

Jim and team, you can't crowd-source your product and then stand back and hope only for raves. It seems to me the people drinking the Kool-aid here tend to be aspirants and close Red confidants. Those people with lots of real world cine production experience get the beat-down for offering up their experience and ideas for free.

There are members and lurkers here for the cine, EFP, and stills industries – and many convergent workers who regularly work in all three. If someone gets the beat down for offering up their real-world experience, perhaps it’s because their input is offered as the only way to do things, with very little tact, and/or it is offered insensitively as “the only way to do things” on a production. Again – we’re back around to respect being a 2-way street. Around here everyone should give respect, and receive respect.

Obviously those of us used to using Arri, Aaton, Panavision gear are spoiled in thinking we can have the same thing for 30k. Manufacturing and machining ain't like that. However, some small choices can be made within the parameters already established and that was what I thought reduser was supposed to be all about.

By naming just Arri, Aaton, and Panavision in what you’re used to, would it be safe to assume that you don’t have any background in EFP or the digital stills industries? Those are the other intended use industries for the DSMC cameras. RED User should be a community of exchange for all three industries intended for RED cameras – not just cine style production.

The invar/stainless/aluminum discussion is a step in the right direction. Just give us the prices and let us vote with our wallets.

Agreed – Jim has agreed to those new options. We will all vote with our wallets. My PL mounts will be stainless.

Let me just finish by saying I love the current Red One and don't expect to be that much happier with the newer cameras. Red has already delivered the miracle. Now we just get a cheaper, low-power, faster miracle.

I also love my RED One cameras. That said, I do deeply appreciate and anticipate the broader utility that these smaller, faster, higher DR, more overcrank capability cameras will deliver. The motion media industry is increasingly dynamic – and decreasingly static. It’s a very cool time to be in this industry – thanks in part to companies like RED.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Well, whatever you want to say about Gibby, you must admit, he is a man of few words...

Hmmmm...let me see, here's a short post by Gibby:

forrest - trees

:biggrin:

 

[Steve Gibby]

And here's another short post by Gibby:

Thanks for the kind words Ketch...

Ciao

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Well answered Gibby!!!

 

[Tom Lowe]

I think where the trouble comes in is when strictly cinema shooters say stuff along the lines of, "Oh, you only shoot nature and surf videos..." That sort of thing is condescending. Would you dismiss an IMAX shooter because his subject matter is wildlife in Africa? Surely not. A lot of the camera dept chumps I've met in LA aren't qualified to polish the lens of a true IMAX or National Geographic DP.

Mutual respect is the key here.