DJI RONIN Group Buy

[Jay A. Kelley]

They are not getting one cent of my money until I know EVERYTHING. price of unit, reviews of unit, what's in the package, price and release dates of ALL NEEDED ACCESORIES. They want my money NOW?! Come on guys...

Jay

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Ditto Greg Fayesh's comments above. All we are getting is the excitement (sizzle) of this mystery product. What I need at this point is to see and taste the steak (actual real-world product: real reviews of it in use, real images of the package, and how it can be used, customized for specific purposes). This shouldn't (still) be a mystery product. It was shown at NAB, but since that time, I have been unable to find any review, info, etc on it - other than the original two videos. By now, when I am thinking of laying down a sizeable investment, I have nothing to base it on. (Most of us probably couldn't attend CineGear). And for our leap-of-faith jump, we are being allowed a 10% discount? It might be time to slow down the excitement ... I wish it felt otherwise, but it does not.

I wouldn't call it a mystery product. I kicked the tires yesterday at Cinegear. It's a working product. I think it's GREAT. With respect to what seems to be dissapointment over a 10% discount - I think it's important to put this in perspective - compare the price of the Ronin to the MOVI. I doubt they have as much margin to work with. That said - IMO - DJI really should have worked with ONE distributor for REDUSER GROUP BUY.

Clearly they were a bit too focused on making all the distrubutors fighting for a piece of the pie happy and lining them up - instead of putting a wee bit more focus on this community. Ooooops.

My 2 cents.

PS - The product kicks ass IMO - VERY, VERY fast and easy to get up and running which is crucial in a real world production environment. From a rental house persepctive - this product is a no-brainer.

 

[Matt Fleming]

FYI: I think there are some basic Group Buy rules on RED User that require posting full disclosure of the deal: pricing, kit contents, shipping etc. Not sure the non-transparent, specific retailer package price pass the that smell test. Not my forum but that's what I have seen in the past as a standard practice

Agreed. No comment on this GB specifically but I'm forming the opinion that Group Buys work best for products that are already developed, manufactured, packaged, tested, and are available for sale with an established retail price. The Group Buys for new, un-made products are feeling a little bit too much like KickStarter/promotional/publicity ad campaigns.

Got to also add that I know Zeb has always said that he's not getting (or expecting) any payment for a ton of work he's done for DJI and AMP but it feels a bit like he's getting shooed off the stage with a dismissive "We'll take it over from here, son" after handing them a gift of free organizing, promotion, and $1 mil + in sales. Not that he needs the strokes but I hope there's at least some kind of public acknowledgment of gratitude for all he's done for them. Would like to see him get one of the beta unit ASAP so he can give us a review too.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I wouldn't call it a mystery product. I kicked the tires yesterday at Cinegear. It's a working product. I think it's GREAT. With respect to what seems to be dissapointment over a 10% discount - I think it's important to put this in perspective - compare the price of the Ronin to the MOVI. I doubt they have as much margin to work with. That said - IMO - DJI really should have worked with ONE distributor for REDUSER GROUP BUY.

Clearly they were a bit too focused on making all the distrubutors fighting for a piece of the pie happy and lining them up - instead of putting a wee bit more focus on this community. Ooooops.

My 2 cents.

PS - The product kicks ass IMO - VERY, VERY fast and easy to get up and running which is crucial in a real world production environment. From a rental house persepctive - this product is a no-brainer.

Hey Mark, if by chance you had a chance to kick the tires on any other gimbals at Cinegear, could you post your thoughts elsewhere on REDuser? Thanks.

Now back to the regular scheduled program... :smiley:

 

[Abiodun Shote]

Agreed. No comment on this GB specifically but I'm forming the opinion that Group Buys work best for products that are already developed, manufactured, packaged, tested, and are available for sale with an established retail price. The Group Buys for new, un-made products are feeling a little bit too much like KickStarter/promotional/publicity ad campaigns.

Got to also add that I know Zeb has always said that he's not getting (or expecting) any payment for a ton of work he's done for DJI and AMP but it feels a bit like he's getting shooed off the stage with a dismissive "We'll take it over from here, son" after handing them a gift of free organizing, promotion, and $1 mil + in sales. Not that he needs the strokes but I hope there's at least some kind of public acknowledgment of gratitude for all he's done for them. Would like to see him get one of the beta unit ASAP so he can give us a review too.

Spot ON

 

[Carey Lee Coffey]

Hang on. Did I get this right? It's the same retail package, with all the same accessories, but 10% cheaper?

In other words, a $1.5M Group Buy got no extra goodies and a discount some US retailers can give in any case? Well, color me disappointed - especially as the 10% discount is eaten by shipping costs and taxes for us European customers.

Honestly, I would have expected either extra aks on top of the discount or a larger discount, something in the twenties perhaps. I mean, come on, it's 300 units after all.

Regardless, I did enter my details and decided to wait to hear from a European distributor, hoping the deal changes for the better between now and the time deposit is due.

When the dust settles, I think the group buy I put together for the BeSteady Four will be the best bang-for-the-buck, by far. I got them to give us everything we asked for, and for a very affordable price. Yes, it's late. But that's a good thing now because they have a head start on some of these other gimbals and it should be the next one to hit the streets.

 

[Peter Majtan]

While most of the questions and concerns posted are valid, we all need to step back a little a take a chill pill while we re-evaluate our attitude. People keep throwing around numbers like 1.5 mil GB. As some have pointed out the original GB interest rarely translates to 100% orders, in fact it is more common to see up to 80% drop off after the fact. But let's put the actual size of this GB aside for a moment. People seems to be sneezing at the $450 discount offered by DJI. DJI is a very large company that - like many others (including RED) - do not offer discounts on their products. If RED was to offer 10% discount on the first batch of Dragon orders we would all be bouncing from floor to ceiling with joy, but when DJI (despite their corporate policy) offers it to us - we feel insulted?
I personally would have been happy with just having the guarantee of getting the first units to us - that is huge all by itself. Many of us here have paid major premium on the Epic M models to get them earlier, forget about talking discounts. In our industry being the first with the leading product could mean everything. Ronin is going to easily command a min of $100 daily rental rate (never mind the rental income from other associated gear that you might get just because you have the early Ronin), so for every week we get our Ronins early you save further 10% of its value. Most of the first owners will pay theirs off before the general public gets even a whiff of the Ronin - just like many Epic M owners did...

So yes, we need more info - and I am sure we will have it before we need to commit our money. If not - it will be our individual decisions whether to go ahead or not - nobody is holding a loaded gun to your head. We have been down this road with RED itself on so many products and accessories...

Just my 2 yen...

:sifone: Peter

 

[Matt Hall]

like many others (including RED) - do not offer discounts on their products.

From red.com: In an effort to make our products more accessible to students, faculty, and schools, RED offers educational pricing of 10–15% off many products.

Not to nitpick, but just in case you were not aware.

 

[Peter Majtan]

From red.com: In an effort to make our products more accessible to students, faculty, and schools, RED offers educational pricing of 10–15% off many products.

Not to nitpick, but just in case you were not aware.

Matt - that is nitpicking LOL. Apple also offers educational discounts and half the SW on the net is available for free for educational purposes. Does that relate to us working in the industry?

:sifone: Peter

 

[Matt Hall]

Matt - that is nitpicking LOL. Apple also offers educational discounts and half the SW on the net is available for free for educational purposes. Does that relate to us working in the industry?

:sifone: Peter

Your facts were wrong, that's all. Just trying to help you out, buddy

 

[Kevin J Salisbury]

agreed well said

Agreed. No comment on this GB specifically but I'm forming the opinion that Group Buys work best for products that are already developed, manufactured, packaged, tested, and are available for sale with an established retail price. The Group Buys for new, un-made products are feeling a little bit too much like KickStarter/promotional/publicity ad campaigns.

Got to also add that I know Zeb has always said that he's not getting (or expecting) any payment for a ton of work he's done for DJI and AMP but it feels a bit like he's getting shooed off the stage with a dismissive "We'll take it over from here, son" after handing them a gift of free organizing, promotion, and $1 mil + in sales. Not that he needs the strokes but I hope there's at least some kind of public acknowledgment of gratitude for all he's done for them. Would like to see him get one of the beta unit ASAP so he can give us a review too.

 

[Peter Lan]

so the promised universal mount adapter and 2nd battery is not included in this GB package???? I am a little confused how things changed from the last google hangout sess to what it is now.

 

[Justin Marx]

Interested... Too late?

 

[JeanChristophe Dupasquier]

Maybe I'm paranoid but could somebody (Willis Chung?) please explain this to me:
- What's the URL (sub-domain) http://roningroupbuy.dji.us.com exactly? This should be on the domain dji.com, not (dji.)us.com! When I visit the URL http://dji.us.com the site looks very suspicious! The main domain us.com lets you (anybody) set up whatever page you'd want to.
- Why is this website not secured? Every serious website asking for personal information is secured by a SSL certificate. This is not the case here.

I'm really interested in this deal...but I'm not willing to share personal information on a suspicious website like this. No offence, but this looks like a SCAM to me. Change it on your main domain and I'm in for the (great) deal tho.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

I for one am not against this product or group buy.. I like the product and if it performs as stated, and if the final package is acceptable, then I am all over it.. What I do not agree with is a group buy that asks me for something without fully explaining and demoing what I am paying for.

Jay

 

[Per von Koch]

So AMP... Can you ship to Europe?

 

[Zeb B]

Hey Willis,

Please provide a single page that covers the official, final DJI / RED Group Buy terms and conditions so I can link it to the first page of this thread. Having external links to retailer sites to find out pricing, kit contents, payments and other details is a RED User Group Buy no-no.

We need to have:
1. Kit Contents (from all dealers if they are different)
2. Costs including domestic shipping
3. ETA to shipping first let's say 200 units
4. Deposit / Final Payment terms and conditions
5. Return Policy
6. Support for International customers both in purchase and after sale
7. Warranty Terms and Conditions

Extra credit for answers to these questions:
1. When can an independent RED User test and evaluate the Ronin? Feel free to ship me what you are showing at Cine Gear for that test. I have many qualified friends that know how to put a pro gimbal to the test fairly and independently.
2. Warranty Service Center locations
3. Dealer Allocation - I see now that AMP is maybe getting only 50 units. That's disappointing. When are they getting the 2nd and 3rd 50 units?
4. Support Plan / Phone and Workshops if any
5. Thumb Wheel cost and ETA
6. Is the Auto Calibrate feature currently functional?


Also if you care to address: from my Post #274

Features & Package Deal Wishlist (post your ideas and requests so we can include then present this to AMP/DJI):

1. Top Priority = smoking package deal on Carbon Dragon and Epic. Would love for RED/DJI/AMP kick down a compelling and integrated bundle
2. Thumb Control
3. Extra Battery and little parts that break or get lost replacement kit
4. Custom PeliCase like so: http://cinemaoxide.com/site/product/pelican-case-for-movi-m10-red-overlay/
5. Limited "RE" RED Edition which could include some value add by AMP making this product "Tuned For RED"
6. Training by AMP and/or DJI - "Top Cam - Learn to Fly" (Top Gun motif) . . . A one day workshop covering everything from initializing, flying and servicing the pig. This series to be made available via private YouTube channel for International customers.
7. Pro Certification like Microsoft and Apple have through seminars and tests.
8. Direct DJI Cine Hotline Pro-Support. Not the regular 1-800 RC support line.
9. First in line for Upgrade path
10. Extended / Transferable Warranty
11. Universal mount to allow attachment to 3rd party gear such as SteadiCam or AP Raptor. Might be 3rd party supplied but need interface drawings and project champion. Fury perhaps?
12. Discount on bundle with DJI's LightBridge system as an option for those who want it
13. Transmitter/Receiver for 2nd Operator as an option for those who want it
14. 12 volt and 5 volt aux power ports for monitors etc - see below Demo for Morons vid. . . start at 2:45 to prevent nerve damage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7MsNxFHdCU
15. Multirotor Attachment to allow quick release from top handle and reattachment to Octo
16. "X" Price discount . . . last since I personally value the above more. Folks have suggested a 10-50% off deal. I don't think a deep price discount is realistic. Trost Sliders selling direct, when their intial market is 100% RU's, has nothing in common with a large, established, global company like DJI who prices with no consideration to first in line buyers expectations. Just saying don't get all crazy thinking on this issue.

And of course . . . SWAG!!! - "DJI RE", "TOP CAM Pro Pilot" gear 'n wear, Stickers and other fun stuff

 

[Note Suwanchote]

overall i'm still excited for this one

for me CS is more important than anything else

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Hey Willis,

Please provide a single page that covers the official, final DJI / RED Group Buy terms and conditions so I can link it to the first page of this thread. Having external links to retailer sites to find out pricing, kit contents, payments and other details is a RED User Group Buy no-no.

We need to have:
1. Kit Contents (from all dealers if they are different)
2. Costs including domestic shipping
3. ETA to shipping first let's say 200 units
4. Deposit / Final Payment terms and conditions
5. Return Policy
6. Support for International customers both in purchase and after sale
7. Warranty Terms and Conditions

Extra credit for answers to these questions:
1. When can an independent RED User test and evaluate the Ronin? Feel free to ship me what you are showing at Cine Gear for that test. I have many qualified friends that know how to put a pro gimbal to the test fairly and independently.
2. Warranty Service Center locations
3. Dealer Allocation - I see now that AMP is maybe getting only 50 units. That's disappointing. When are they getting the 2nd and 3rd 50 units?
4. Support Plan / Phone and Workshops if any
5. Thumb Wheel cost and ETA
6. Is the Auto Calibrate feature currently functional?


Also if you care to address: from my Post #274

Features & Package Deal Wishlist (post your ideas and requests so we can include then present this to AMP/DJI):

1. Top Priority = smoking package deal on Carbon Dragon and Epic. Would love for RED/DJI/AMP kick down a compelling and integrated bundle
2. Thumb Control
3. Extra Battery and little parts that break or get lost replacement kit
4. Custom PeliCase like so: http://cinemaoxide.com/site/product/pelican-case-for-movi-m10-red-overlay/
5. Limited "RE" RED Edition which could include some value add by AMP making this product "Tuned For RED"
6. Training by AMP and/or DJI - "Top Cam - Learn to Fly" (Top Gun motif) . . . A one day workshop covering everything from initializing, flying and servicing the pig. This series to be made available via private YouTube channel for International customers.
7. Pro Certification like Microsoft and Apple have through seminars and tests.
8. Direct DJI Cine Hotline Pro-Support. Not the regular 1-800 RC support line.
9. First in line for Upgrade path
10. Extended / Transferable Warranty
11. Universal mount to allow attachment to 3rd party gear such as SteadiCam or AP Raptor. Might be 3rd party supplied but need interface drawings and project champion. Fury perhaps?
12. Discount on bundle with DJI's LightBridge system as an option for those who want it
13. Transmitter/Receiver for 2nd Operator as an option for those who want it
14. 12 volt and 5 volt aux power ports for monitors etc - see below Demo for Morons vid. . . start at 2:45 to prevent nerve damage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7MsNxFHdCU
15. Multirotor Attachment to allow quick release from top handle and reattachment to Octo
16. "X" Price discount . . . last since I personally value the above more. Folks have suggested a 10-50% off deal. I don't think a deep price discount is realistic. Trost Sliders selling direct, when their intial market is 100% RU's, has nothing in common with a large, established, global company like DJI who prices with no consideration to first in line buyers expectations. Just saying don't get all crazy thinking on this issue.

And of course . . . SWAG!!! - "DJI RE", "TOP CAM Pro Pilot" gear 'n wear, Stickers and other fun stuff

Zeb - I can't speak for Willis or DJI or AMP - all I can tell you is that he's burried in a crowd talking and demostrating non-stop. Yeah ... it would have been MUCH smarter for him to have waiting unitl AFTER CineGear - and just posted all the detailed info - and I am sure you will get all the details shortly after the chaos on Cinegear.

Bottom line ... nobody has been asked to send any money yet, right?

Let's all take a collective breath here.

What I will say is the following - this Group Buy initiated with AMP - a distributor - not DJI the corporation making the product and calling the shots - and some assumptions were clearly made. But there is a very impressive support plan in motion - but I will let Willis give those details when he comes up for air.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Hey Willis,

Please provide a single page that covers the official, final DJI / RED Group Buy terms and conditions so I can link it to the first page of this thread. Having external links to retailer sites to find out pricing, kit contents, payments and other details is a RED User Group Buy no-no.

We need to have:
1. Kit Contents (from all dealers if they are different)
2. Costs including domestic shipping
3. ETA to shipping first let's say 200 units
4. Deposit / Final Payment terms and conditions
5. Return Policy
6. Support for International customers both in purchase and after sale
7. Warranty Terms and Conditions

For the record - I do agree with Zeb on the lack of info and I am just assuming Willis will posts when he recovers from Cinegear.

But I don't think anyone should hand over any money to any distributors until these basic questions are pubically answer here for Redusers - that's the right thing to do.

I've seen some Group Buys go sideways - and I REALLY don't want this one to go sideways because I think it's really a great product for Redusers.