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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

delivery schedule

After Sony Admitted they had a problem with the sensor block component in our HDCam, (It is "sensivive" to the high altitude conditions in aircraft), which caused it to permanently lose pixels.

We got the early adopter special Sony offer, to replace it for the retail price. of 22K almost the value of the used camera body. They sold these cameras initially for bleeding edge pricing. Every year they have become cheaper for the later adopters. I think it's rather refreshing to see the RED folk offer a better/more complete/cheaper? deal to the early adopters.

ps: The regional rep from Sony was very sympathetic to our problems the executives who actually made the decisions about what to do with our camera were much less so.

A couple of NABs ago I met with the US head of the Sony division which was going to introduce the Z1U camera. At that time they had only a non working prototype. I asked him why the lens barrel had no marks on the focus ring? He explained the workings of the yet to be introduced camera. You know how it works right. (Motorized different positions are focused at different zoom settings) When I challenged this as making it virtually impossible for an assistant to work in long proven ways, his response was that most of them would be sold for the use of parents to take pictures of their kids anyway!
Kid pics for 7K? The reason companies like RED etc. will succeed in this market is that the big companies are really out of touch with reality!
 
Jannard said:
My bet is that there are still some surprises left in the bag that will bring joy to the hearts of the RED ONE reservation holders. Since the reservations are now closed, I will say that the believers will get a better package than those that place orders at NAB and beyond.

Jim
Click to expand...

Damn :(... I won't be able to afford one for at least four or five years...
 
Hi TJ
That's bad luck with your camera it should have been replaced,
sounds like a lemon. I had to squeal like a stuck pig to get my
PVW replaced but they did it in end.
A phone call and very formal letter in
J
A
P
A
N
E
S
E
did the trick.
I,m very happy to see competition for Sony in the form of Red
even if they are very different cameras.

____________________________________ mezmo
 
Dear believers, sceptics, convicts, converts etc:
Let´s look at this from the man´s point of view: he just knows he is up to something. He has the knowledge, the skill and the money to hire some of the best to make it happen. Plan gets announced, a buzz forms around this project. Some call it hype, some may call it cult, I call it specs and value for money. Specs most of us have been strategically deprived of by the biggies, who line up their products/markets by spending power of their costumers. I am sure Jim Jannard will not, as a matter of principle, loose money on RED. He may be willing to write off R&D expenses over a much longer peridod of time than other companies, but then again this is his very personal project as a unsatisfied shooter, which he decided he can afford. To announce goodies at the end of the reservation period rather prooves that there was never any marketing gag involved and that the number of early adopters has probably exceeded his estimation. With his financial background and at this stage of development, he did not need the $ 1.000 fee for RED. This was a rather good way to find out how many units would actually sell at the price point of $ 17.500. (A break-in at the RED office could also be considered as the first flattering form of recognition from the outside world - no matter who was behind this, unless they were after petty-cash.)
Hands-on buying decisions definitely have their merits in the mechanical world - and sturdy does RED look in any case - but they will not work for microprocessors, hard drives and image sensors. In electronic imaging you either trust the specs of a tool or you believe in a brand name, who `will do the rest ...´
 
Hi Getken,
My concern is that Red camera may not be the right camera
for many early adopters who put all the money down early on a Red
package before the camera has been properly tested.
Blind faith and belief don't appeal to me but seem to be O.K for
many potential Red buyers. This camera is such a new,new piece of
technology it just screams out for intensive testing by future users.
I'm a potential future buyer and user if this camera suits my needs.

I would place an order for this camera if I could get my hands on one
to test and tinker. I don't think this is an unreasonable request.
The way things seem to be set up is you pay $1K, believe, and one day
your camera will come. This is what I have the problem with Getken.

I intend to use this camera for Feature Drama work. I see it sitting somewhere between 35mm 3 perf and Super 16 or Film Rec 8 bit tape.
Cost advantages over film are obvious and the oportunity to shoot a
2.35-40 to1 aspect ratio on such a cheap 4k/2k format is attractive.
I don't see it replacing 35mm Film anytime soon (that'll start a fight)
but Super 16 & Film Rec 8 bit tape could be in trouble depending on
how this camera images.

How the camera and software behave when Log or RGB data is
converted to Lin and rounded off to 422 video colors will be important to those who have more of a HD TV requirement. Good results can be had
with very expensive equipment, but how will the Red system cope with this?

Red will probably have it's own particular "look". So for my Feature Drama
work I'd like to feed 2k test Data from Red into a variety of linear and non linear grading systems, Truelight & Da vinchi,Lustre,Nucoder,Scratch and
play with the stuff. Do burn tests to 35mm intermediate and high speed
camera stocks in an effort introduce film grain to Data files. Test test test.

Then if the camera suits my needs and if the camera suits your needs,
then and only then Getken should you put all the money down for your
Red Kit.

Happy shootin,______________________Mezmo
 
mezmo said:
I don't see it replacing 35mm Film anytime soon (that'll start a fight)
but Super 16 & Film Rec 8 bit tape could be in trouble depending on
how this camera images.
Click to expand...


Not a fight from me just a comment on what I have seen.

TV dramas that traditionally shot in 16mm have changed to HD cameras and even some 35mm TV shows have made the switch, some even partway through the run of the show (season one 35mm season 2 HD). A good DOP can make this change over seamless. This having happened and even some large budget feature films being shot HD. I think there is a good chance of 4k being abble to take a big chunk out of 35mm work.
 
Calculated risk

Calculated risk

Mezmo makes some valid points about genuine due diligence in selecting a camera system / format for shooting a serious piece of work. I do not plan to run out to shoot a feature the first day I get my RedOne, that would be extremely risky. Testing is important, that's a given.

I do not share the opinion that buying the RedOne before all its parameters have been exhaustively tested is poor judgement. If this was a $100K plus system it might require a different approach. If the folks on the Red Team didn't have any street cred prior to this project it would be a different story. If I didn't already have experience manipulating RAW color data with stills and understanding its power I might be more worried about the results I can reasonably expect.

IMHO being a RedOne early adopter is a calculated risk with a huge upside.
 
Well, with reservation 861, we're gonna know if the camera has problems way before we take delivery -- so yes it's a risk but I'm betting it will pay off for early adopters. I think that any venture like this has potential problems, but Red seems to have a stunningly competent and expert team. They are also backed by the considerable resources of Jim. I suppose the final reason to put our deposits where our faith is, is that the Red team has made some very public statements of what it expects to achieve within a demanding time schedule. I don't think failure is an option for a group of people who have so much riding on this venture.

So, nothing wrong with healthly scepticism, but I'm kind of proud to be able to say I have faith in this project, the people behind it, and more importantly the vision to create a camera that may very well step change the industry.

Ziggx
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
IMHO being a RedOne early adopter is a calculated risk with a huge upside.
Click to expand...

The bottom line - Blair you are absolutely right, that's exactly the way I see it.

And if it comes off like we all hope it will - then I for one will be riding the crest of that upside!!

What an opportunity?

Best regards, Phil
 
mezmo said:
Hi Getken,
My concern is that Red camera may not be the right camera
for many early adopters who put all the money down early on a Red
package before the camera has been properly tested.
Blind faith and belief don't appeal to me but seem to be O.K for
many potential Red buyers. Happy shootin,______________________Mezmo
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but this kind of passive aggressive statement really gets my back up.

Mezmo, I am an early adapter and I find your comments to be rude and insulting.

Your insults are veiled in "concern" for us early adapters who according to your comments must Not be as wise or as intelligent as you, for if we were... we never would have made the grave mistake of placing an order on a Red camera.

mezmo said:
Hi Jim and the Red Army,(Mao had plenty of faithfull followers)
Please cut the hype Jim as the camera gets ready to make it's debut
on the world stage. Many thanks______________________________Mezmo
P.S. Red Army please back off and let Jim answer.
Click to expand...


And I don't appreciate you insulting Jim Jannard either! You see, Jim happens to be a personal hero of mine, and when you insult him, it makes me angry.... so I would like it if you would stop.

**********

MODERATORS!

Sorry to go of topic.... but I wonder if we had a "real names only" policy here, we couldn't reduce many of the insulting comments being made by the anonymous.
 
Sam - my friend - I think Mezmo is "batting for the other side" in more ways than one. It's all typical marketing FUD ( Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) - I wouldn't rise to it.

Mezmo is here to try and upset things in a "don't you think you are all making a terrible mistake" kind of way "wouldn't it more sensible to wait and see like the sensible person I am" - the only way you can rationalize mezmo's statements are from the point of view that whoever mezmo represents can get hurt by the big RED ONE being very successful.

I have to say I have my doubts about the veracity of that 'fishy' person as well - "I didn't get a reservation number" really? I did.

They are scared aren't they?
 
Like it has been mentioned a bunch the anouncement of the early reservations getting a better package did not come until after the deadline so there was no hype in that at all, which Jim could have used it to add a bunch of hype if it had been done before the deadline. So I respect Jim a bunch for that and if you can't see that it was not done for hype you are clueless.
 
I really don't know what all the fuss is about? If Mezmo wants to wait let him wait. If Mezmo thinks he will get a better camera if he waits then he might well be right. Jim will not stop making improvements.

Jim is working damn hard to bring us an incredible camera at an incredible price and delivered to us sometime in the late spring to summer. He is still improving the specs as we chat about it right now. So yes Mezmo the camera will improve when you get round to buying one if you ever do!

It will improve each year probably and perhaps be preceded by red two.

But jim and red are unlike any other camera company. Red will never let the early believers down full stop.

So Mezmo while you hang around waiting.........All the early believers will be drooling and enjoying their great new tool. Sometimes it is wise to be in early at the start of something big. The wise one's will prove to have been the early ones this time round. Trust in red...... Trust in Jim

Mike the beginner
 
Watch it, guys; you're getting quite close to the line. We're all friends here, even if our opinions vary. Let's put a stop to it now before I have to do this whole thing.
 
You could proably take them to court for that for not disclosing that little
tibit of info that might have saved you 22k
 
Hi Red Army,
Thanks for all the great posts, you guys have a great passion for this
camera and Indie Film. I've no intention of diverting you from your mission.
I have a crack at Jim because he asks me to believe. Perhaps it's
the years I spent in a strict church boarding school but anyone who
asks me to believe really gets my back up.
This is a camera not a new detergent or a religion that's gunna change
my life. I dont need to believe, I just need to test.
Here's an idea.

All you guys have already put out $1K US for this camera as deposit.
This is enough money to cover the shipping/insurance/rental of some Red One Demo models to those of us who are hooked on testing like me.
We could asess the camera over a one or two week period to see if
the thing meets our needs, Log or Linear workflow.
If we go on and purchase the camera the $1K US outlay would be
refunded. If the cameras is not for us, Red keeps the loot.
I think this would be of benefit to both Red and it's customers.

I'd hate to see Red suffer any adverse publicity because some people
don't understand what they are buying or are unhappy with results
in various post workflows. Red is a great idea and I want to see it prosper.

A great Digital Film setup for me would be the Arri D20/Viper or other as a
main unit camera with two Reds as 2nd and 3rd cameras.All are Log boxes.
I see the Red camera as the Thomas the Tank Engine of Digital Film cameras (this is not an insult) Its the little camera that could.
On some days it can pull a heavy load (be main camera) on others it can
back up a bigger system.
It's a codec based DFilm camera,cheap and cheerful. I dont think anyone
at Arri,Thompson,and Panavision give a toss. And Sony and Panasonic are
not really in the Cmos area yet. It'll happen.
Mezmo doesn't work for any of these guys, he makes their products work
for him.
Mezmo is a Content Producer and Film/Digital D.P.
He is not the evil one.

Love___________________________________ Mezmo
 
mezmo

I think a lot of people here are on the same page as you are as far as wanting more tests and information on the camera. I sure wouldn't want to have to spend $1,000 just to test a camera and try and make a decision and have to give away that $1,000 if I did not want it. I think a lot of us are just waiting for the camera to be tested by independent DP's and users that get the camera early to see how it stacks up. Red gave us the option to get your money back for any reason so if you are a high number you would be totally safe as all the testing is done for us by fellow pro's. When the camera comes out there are DP's excited to do full testing so personally I don't see a risk only an option to buy a winner.
 
mezmo said:
I'd hate to see Red suffer any adverse publicity because some people don't understand what they are buying or are unhappy with results
in various post workflows.
Click to expand...

If you're not on the list now then you're not going to be able to buy one for a year probably - so I wouldn't lose too much sleep about post issues just yet. We'll figure everything out and post it here for you by the time you'll be able to buy one. :-)

(Every other HD camera already has gone through much post confusion. It's easy to anticipate some people will have trouble and others will love it. No biggie - here it comes...get ready... see you told us so. )
 
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