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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

delivery schedule

Doc Holliday said:
mezmo -- wouldn't you expect that those that take risk should have more payoff? You cannot bet on a high odds horse and make alot of money. Some of us believed in the project before we "tested." I'm sure that Jim will be more than fair to any customer that buys into RED (likely moreso than any other camera company), but some of us that placed reservations months and months ago feel like we are a little bitty part of the company. Try not to be a hater.
Click to expand...

Doc,
don't get me wrong, I love the idea of Red and you definitly need to
be rewarded for buying into the first model of Red. I really really hope this
camera is sucessfull in the market place, it will bring in a new era of
low cost Digital Film.
Call me old fashioned but I like to get my hands on a camera and try
before I buy. I'm just asking Jim if this will incure a penality in the
pricing department and why so.
Also I'm curious as to what are his plans for the company. My garage
is stacked with Film/Video gear that is no longer in service.
Parts unavailable, outdated software, with suppliers no longer concerned.
Companies get bought, get sold, go broke. Customers seem to be the
last consideration.
This business is an expensive business to be in. I'm interested in Red and
I'm also interested minimizing costs at any oportunity.
If Jim keeps a lid on Red's price and it's as good as I think it'll be,
don't worry I'll go for it. But Doc, I'll never be a believer. Just a user.
_______________________________________ Mezmo
 
status quo

status quo

Tranquil_Light said:
My advice Mezmo is to accept the fact that you are not - by nature a risk taker - unlike the guys at RED and most of the guys and gals on this forum.
Click to expand...

mezmo isn't afraid to take risks as much as he/she are unwilling to make changes. people like mezmo probably make a good living working within the current system and are happy with the status quo.

i think red is trying to create more than just a new 4k camera. in a few years (due in part to red's pioneering work), 4k cameras will be a dime a dozen and users will be thirsting for an entire 4k camera/workflow/distribution/marketing platform-a platform that red is creating from the ground up. that involves more than just a bankroll. it involves a few thousand users willing to put up $1000 initially for the chance to get in early and be part of that change. it sounds like corny marketing speak but the "revolution" of red is a lot more than just the great pricing.
 
Hey Wigby - Good points about what the revolution can bring going forward and you are right - it's about a lot more than just great pricing - though that is the entry point for the Indie people like me.

All the best, Phil
 
Don't forget the Market needs time to develop, and educating the market is the key to speed up the new users learning curve so they will believe we hope.

" WE don't need no education " beleive it or not, there are 1500 RED bricks on the Walls.

Stewart
Leader is Leader , User is User " No risk no gain " in people business world .. that's life.
 
Hi Tranquil Light,
From my experience both Arri & Sony are happy to take suggestions
on new gear or prototypes. I had some of the first Sony PVW Betacams, a
twisting cassette cradle was redesigned and replaced, no biggie. Loose mainboard components, they replaced the machine.
Guys that bought PVW's after me probably got a better machine.
I got mine a bit cheaper, they were demo's.

Arri will bring out a prototype of cameras like the Arricam. They do
a Global tour and invite suggestions with the designer present.
Many changes are made before the camera ships.
This is normal and at no time are you asked to be a believer.

I'm quite happy to pay a liitle more for Red 2500 or whaterver
but having learned a lesson from my betacams and other gear
I'll hang back a bit.
Red is just a tool like many other cameras and I look forward
to using it.
_________________________________Mezmo
 
mezmo said:
Call me old fashioned but I like to get my hands on a camera and try
before I buy. I'm just asking Jim if this will incure a penality in the
pricing department and why so. Mezmo
Click to expand...

Why so?
I believe us reservation holders deserve a benefit for the "risk" we are taking of buying before trying. Call it the early bird special. Reward those who come early.

Either way you look at it. The only 4k cameras I know of are the dalsa and phantom HD, I don't know their price tags...but my guess is that they probably cost 6-10 times the price of the RED. Even if the price was doubled.. it would still be a still of a deal for what it can do.
 
mezmo said:
Arri will bring out a prototype of cameras like the Arricam. They do
a Global tour and invite suggestions with the designer present.
Many changes are made before the camera ships.
Click to expand...

This is what has amazed me thus far about the RED TEAM. Everyone has been approachable. I don't see other camera manufacturer staff in chat rooms divulging this much information and taking this much feedback form users. This level of involvement is unheard of.
 
mezmo said:
Hi Tranquil Light,
From my experience both Arri & Sony are happy to take suggestions
on new gear or prototypes.
_________________________________Mezmo
Click to expand...
I guess "Sony" is actually the same name for a number of different companies... My experience is that Sony is completely unapproachable and will not take any suggestions from existing customers, much less hold open discussions with not-yet-customers on a web forum.
 
jbeale said:
I guess "Sony" is actually the same name for a number of different companies... My experience is that Sony is completely unapproachable and will not take any suggestions from existing customers, much less hold open discussions with not-yet-customers on a web forum.
Click to expand...

My experience with Sony has been extremely good. Not only have they taken (and solicited input) but they have also sent a product manager out to a remote location to see our particular shooting conditions and help optimize camera settings. I believe part of the responsibility is ours in how we approach the manafucturers. I have had great luck with all of the manufacturers I have dealt with (Sony, Fujinon, Cineflex) and found all of them staffed with excellent people who are very interested in how folks are really using their product.

Clearly Red is taking an even more open approach, soliciting input online in a very innovative manner. I am waiting to see how it goes the first time I am out in the middle of the wilderness in Alaska and have a major issues with one of our RED cameras (we have reserved two but expect several more if things go well). What kind of support will I get from RED? I am expecting great support, and in spite of the posts by many others I believe (at least for me) Sony and the rest of the manufacturers have set a very high bar.
 
Mezmo

You talk about Jim working the "hype" but in the end Jim did not mention that the initial buyers would get a better package until all the reservations were in. So how is this working up hype, If Jim really had wanted to use hype he would of mentioned it before the reservations.

It sounds like you want it all. You want all the advantages of a fully field tested camera for a very low price and are just bitter that the red is not setting the camera sales up this way. If users field tests all come back possitive I would suggest you grab a reservation very quick or you could be way down on the list. I feel there are a lot of others on the fence like you and if demand goes way through the roof I would be very surprised if the price stayed as low as it is.
 
sony, panasonic, jvc vs. red

sony, panasonic, jvc vs. red

i think people are talking about 2 different kinds of consumers here. i make purchasing decisions and shoot low budget stuff but am not a professional nor do i expect sony and panasonic to come out and check my shooting conditions should i have a technical problem. i might be considered a prosumer because i'm buying redone instead of a car this year. but i'm not intending to buy several reds or any other cams to arm my company with. red is a startup so it only makes sense for them to cater to bigger guys and small guys like me. sony, pana, jvc don't care about me because i have no intention of placing orders with them nor do i exhibit product loyalty (i have a dvx100, hvx200 and recently sold my sony hv1u) with any of them.

and as far as red oweing us for being early adopters...that's nonsense. everyone in technology knows that you pay the price for being the early adopter but you stand to reap the possible rewards too. i don't expect anything from red except a great cam and great service. so far, i've seen no evidence to make me expect anything less.
 
I stand corrected

I stand corrected

mezmo said:
Hi Tranquil Light,
From my experience both Arri & Sony are happy to take suggestions
on new gear or prototypes. I had some of the first Sony PVW Betacams, a
twisting cassette cradle was redesigned and replaced, no biggie. Loose mainboard components, they replaced the machine.
Guys that bought PVW's after me probably got a better machine.
I got mine a bit cheaper, they were demo's.

Arri will bring out a prototype of cameras like the Arricam. They do
a Global tour and invite suggestions with the designer present.
Many changes are made before the camera ships.
This is normal and at no time are you asked to be a believer.

I'm quite happy to pay a liitle more for Red 2500 or whaterver
but having learned a lesson from my betacams and other gear
I'll hang back a bit.
Red is just a tool like many other cameras and I look forward
to using it.
_________________________________Mezmo
Click to expand...

Well - fair comment - my impression was that little or no useful input went from the average user into the corporate R&D melting pot. But if that's the case, then you do wonder why these massive companies with colossal resources are being out manoeuvred by a dozen or so 'men in a shed' who just happen to have a vision of what is possible with the current technology.

Maybe instead of asking for a better 'twisting cassette cradle' you should have asked for a 12,000,000 pixel, 60 fps, 35mm replacement camera for less than $20,000.

Sorry that was a bit harsh - but I couldn't resist it;)

No hard feelings, Phil
 
To those fans of the traditional big camera company development and marketing model:

"Tire tracks all across your back, I can see you had your fun" (Crosstown Traffic by Jimi Hendrix)

Nuff said...
 
Jimmi was ahead of the times; Jimmi would be red today.
Aloha
-A
 
probably red and very hazy.
-A
 
Voioce of dissent (again)

Voioce of dissent (again)

Jannard said:
My bet is that there are still some surprises left in the bag that will bring joy to the hearts of the RED ONE reservation holders. Since the reservations are now closed, I will say that the believers will get a better package than those that place orders at NAB and beyond.

Jim
Click to expand...

Hi Jim and the Red Army,(Mao had plenty of faithfull followers)

My bitch here is not with the Red camera, love the idea don't
hate it. Nor the pricing policy (unless it skyrockets). I'd just
like to test, rent, and eventually buy the camera without the hype.
What I do believe is Red will be just another imaging tool and a small
part of the workflow needed to produce a Digital film for theatrical
release.
I'm sorry but your believer statement in the post above really got my
back up.
Also the strange lack of concern for buyers at and beyond NAB had me
worried about continuity and serviceability with this camera.
You are a small and new establishment. Are agents planned for offshore
sales?
The Red Army have tipped in with a whole bunch of suggestions,
(thank you guys) but they don't cover all of my concerns.

I'd hate to see the hype on this forum get to fever pitch and mask
any serious discussion on the Red camera as it gets ready for release.
If problems occour after the release of this camera and can't be
discussed here without offending someone from Red, it would be
a sad thing.
Please cut the hype Jim as the camera gets ready to make it's debut
on the world stage. I for one am very excited.
Ow, and a couple of prototypes out there and shooting before NAB
would be great too. We could test, tinker and endorse the thing.

Many thanks______________________________Mezmo
P.S. Red Army please back off and let Jim answer.
 
I don't consider myself a red army or army of one or whatever, but I just can't imagine how Jim's quote got you back up ? Huh ??
-A
 
I would suggest that the "believers" are those who put up the money ahead of the release of a product in the belief that they could be part of a great new system. There is nothing wrong with that and because they were willing to put that dough up front, RED is rewarding these early adopters possibly with a better package than what will be available to those who didn’t pony up early. Let’s think of it as possible interest on the initial investment.

There is nothing wrong with your approach to see what is produced before jumping in. But there is also no risk in that, no money up front…and no surprises, because you're not an early adopter.

So I don’t know why you’re even concerned about all this. Just wait until the product comes out and decide then whether this is a tool for you or not. You make it sound like the “believers” are some kind of cult. No, we just put up $1000 in the belief that we’ll be in early on a cool tool.

I don't think Jim has anything to answer to.
 
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