Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Delivery schedule, hand to mouth.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Thanks for listening to us about the time stamp issue. What more can we say? I guess this transparent process will get abused here and there and cause some stress on both sides. Still, what a great community Red has developed over a very short period of time. It speaks volumes about the company, the product, the business model, the leadership involved and the customers who appreciate it all.

I hope this type of innovation on all fronts creates a deep value which will outweigh any headaches.
 
I like the conservative approach and can wait for my cameras when they are ready and well checked. Thanks for your open and honest discussion.
 
Jim,
I think i'm speaking for everyone here when I emplore you to add 1 additional year to all outstanding delivery dates.....Please!!

umm,
Cheers,
 
I think openness is still the best policy, tell it how it is. Of course it can be a double edged sword and because of that I think sometimes there can be a temptation to present just the appearance of openness. If people see through that it can make them feel like they have been taken for suckers. Not good. Any delays honestly and openly presented seem to have been accepted very well here and I would think they would continue to be so.

M
 
I appreciate the current approach and enjoy it when you post the schedule updates. I believe it will always be the ones next in line who are the most vocal. The closer one gets, the more anxious they become.

I also believe that getting those intial cameras out was an important step. No matter how much you test a product in house, and with a small group of beta testers, the first time an end user gets the product, they will run into something unexpected. Real scenarios are invaluable.

One approach is to start shipping in smaller groups, weekly. This way you can grow the shipping and support as the install base grows. 10 new customers in a week is a lot easy to manage than 50 or 100 new ones.
 
I think it´s best to keep your customers honstly informed as far as that is possible. It´s unique in the business and provides a certain "team" feeling with all of us. One kind of feels "belonging" to the process. Of course, people like us, who ordered already, would like to know more exactly when to expect their babys and a serial number for all ordered cameras would - strangely - make us all a bit proud, but I can fully understand that this is not possible at the given time. So keep up the good work and count on our patience.
 
Jim, thanks for creating this camera and making even beta runs within such a short time.

As with all new product, let alone something that that was created from scratch, it is already a remarkable feat.

I will rather that we let the earlier batches go through a longer period of beta tests, get feedbacks, iron out supply chain shortfalls and come up with a "gold" release schedule for a full production unit. If it is another 3 months delay, than it is going to be a 3 months delay.

Red can deliver up to say the first 300 or 500 units for the beta testers and take a breather till a "gold" schedule can be released.

Lim
 
I'm with most of the people here.
If you need additional delay, go for it. It's better to deliver late then a unfinished product. Be open and honest about it like in the past.

There will always be people that voices a negative opinon to actions like that. But it seems like most of this community understands and needs your open and honest approach.

Keep it real;)
 
The deliveryschedules have always been somewhat vague, as I have read them, and are sort of the least important information to be able to discuss - as long as the cameras are actually delivered.

I have steated several times, that I'd rather be a betatester and get access to the images, than ending up in some sort of Kinetta situation.

What I think is god with the dialogue though, is the features discussion, as that is somewhat interesting as to which features are made accessible in whitch order.

I honestly believe that one year from now,, we will still see updates to the firmware enabling or refining features on the Red one, even announced features -;) But I don't mind. What keeps my peace of mind, though - is pretty much the dialogue.

The other thing I would love to see, is sample RAW footy for us to play and test workflow issues with.

That would make us much more prepared for what comes, than anything else.

Cheers!

Gunleik
 
Seung Han said:
I hope this type of innovation on all fronts creates a deep value which will outweigh any headaches.
Click to expand...

As always, Seung has a healthy attitude.

I wonder whether this forum appears as a whole bit like an infant in the eyes of the RED team. At least, I would not be surprised if Jim has at some point employed somewhat similar phrasing in persuading his kids to understand realities.

Taking into account that the single people in this forum are most likely professionals, one may ask, why this mismatch in communication; Given information, there's an immediate request for much more -some unintentionally with a bit biting tone.

In the end of the day I suspect the question is that this whole style of developing the camera is new, and as Seung implicitly says adopting the culture among the users is still in its infancies.

Perhaps the whole thing boils down to two things: Jim says, don't rely on building any business on RED until you have the camera and everything isready. On the other hand, we as the users can't resist of thinking of the competetive edge brought by the camera and the underlying workflow, and thus many rush straight adead in building their plans above the preliminary schedule.

Compare, when RED says there's a delay one may read it as a negative feedback. But, one may also read that it as a sign of devotion. When the schedule is changed, it simply means they have realized that they can't meet their own goals, and thus updated new information.

Wish Jim keeps informating us the same way as before, and the rest of us stay cool. Even it were June it's not that far ahead.
 
Hi Jim,

One thing that has always struck me is the huge leap in productivity between camera 1-200 and then all of a sudden 400 in one month. I've always wondered how you'd be able to ramp up production without:

A) Bringing in a whole bunch more engineers that need training up

or

B) Sacrificing a part of the production line such as testing in order to get that many out

After all we'd be talking about 15 cameras being finished a day - that's a lot for a precision piece of equipment from a small team.

Personally I want the very best unit I can get and I don't want it to be flipped out of the factory. If that means making that run 5 cameras a day and having something that is tested to perfection I'd be more than happy to wait a few more months for it. No other professional will be interested in using a camera that comes with problems and I don't want to be trying to get them to use it.

Cheers

Paul
 
Cheers Brice, and my commiserations for you mate... been there before and it isn't nice.

Paul
 
A. Live up here in HItec land.... Near Seattle.... maybe I know a few more engineering types.... are you hiring?

B. Jim's statement looks like the precurser of another push back, which is to be expected. With a delivery date of, Dec originally, I always hoped to have my camera in the Spring so I guess I pushed 3 months back on my own???
 
Jim, please keep the current approach, we're used to it.
 
Hi Jim!

I don't think the problem has been the openess. I think it's been the inconsistancy. Your communication on REDUser.net is sparatic and unpredictable, and this leads to an unknown that can cause stress.

The open policy is wonderful, but consistant updates (Even when you come online to say "Nothing has changed") would make all the difference.

My suggestion is this:

Make a list of all items RED is working on with release dates and text on any issues. Then have Jarred make is a sticky. Then pick a date and time and come online and update this list along with answering any concerns or issues at the same time or at least on the same day each week.

I believe this will allow the "open" policy to succeed better than it has.

I don't find the change in delivery dates to be the issue, I find the periods of silence to cause the most stress. People need some sort of predictability.

You can second guess your process with the three month pad, it's no better than what you are doing now. If you do, some things will be early, and some things will not, leading to the same situation we have now.

So we're looking for a "Presidential Forum Address" given once a week by the owner of RED. You'll update your delivery schedule, talk about any issues, and whatever else. I think this would change a lot of things for the better.

Of course I am NOT saying you should ONLY be on during that time, but it will be the one time that we can all depend on.

One more thing: Personally, if it were me, I would not do it on REDUser.net. I would have an update page on RED.com... Many are frustrated with going through the hundreds of pages on here.

Post your updates on RED.com and then we can argue about it on REDUser.net :)


Let me know what you think.

Jay
 
Don't listen to the hecklers mate, they're ten a penny. The real people here recognize and respect what it is you are trying to do and appreciate the fact that you are wiling to include them in that at such a personal level.

The positives here far outweigh the negatives.

Thanks for everything so far.
Cheers,
Mark.
 
tj williams said:
A. Live up here in HItec land.... Near Seattle.... maybe I know a few more engineering types.... are you hiring?

B. Jim's statement looks like the precurser of another push back, which is to be expected. With a delivery date of, Dec originally, I always hoped to have my camera in the Spring so I guess I pushed 3 months back on my own???
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'm not trying to say that it's impossible or to heckle. I'm basically just advocating a push back in my mind. I'm all for a delay if it means that quality is going to be the most important aspect of Red's production is all.

Paul
 
You only have to look at all the fantastic footage the new camera owners, including yourself, have posted during the past few weeks to see that you have taken the right course.


David
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top