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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Delivery schedule, hand to mouth.

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Jim,

You're not God, so you cannot predict the future. Anyone here who is disappointed when you don't is being unreasonable.

However, the normal human way of overcoming their inability to predict the future is to calculate how long it would take if everything goes okay. This is just math problem: rates, etc.

Then pad it by 25-100%, to account for the evil that is in the world. I guess that's what other companies do. Then you *probably* (again, you never know) will make the date. And if you finish ahead of schedule, hey, everyone says you finished early.

Of course, if you pad it too much, enthusiasm wanes. Like you could say 2010, but then not so many people would be talking about it already.

There's an online book about web development called Getting Real. It has some good yet radical advice, some of which could be translated to other industries. I have wondered if you have already read it, because you are following many of its principles.
 
Jim,

I know you guys are doing the best you can. You have made an amazing camera, and I love going back through the forum and watching the work people are posting. I have learned so much from everyone here!

My number is 1123 and I have already planned on it showing up sometime in the Spring (already padding everything by three months). I know you have said Dec / Jan, but I know how ramping up production can be. Honestly, I would really enjoy having a camera that has all bugs worked out. I agree with most people here who have posted: The camera will be ready when it is ready. Lets not rush and make mistakes.

In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy looking at some of the footage from cameras that are already out there. Everyone keep posting!
 
My expectations from you and your company are that you make the best product you can make and deliver the camera I was sold. (2 actually). I think you have a very innovative approach and refreshing company model. I look forward to info updates and am excited to receive my product. You've been clear all along about what you're trying to accomplish and the fact that schedules most likely will change. This so far has been very reasonable and fair. Offering a refund puts your money where your mouth is. I think people who are having a difficult time are very anxious to get the camera - thats a good thing. More info is better - but I also appreciate the idea that this is still a business and a company needs to focus on product development without revealing too much to their competitors.

Thanks - I look forward to my REDs.
 
Dont worry, be happy.

Its simple. You guys have always said, "Dates Subject to Change." If people still bitch, they weren't reading closely and therefore, too bad, so sad!
 
4,000 plus customers

4,000 plus customers

Jim,

I've been buying cameras since the late 70's and I've been thinking about the many communications I have had with the team leaders at Sony and Panasonic on the developement of their camera systems and how I have truly been part of the process to help them create camera systems that really serve the needs of the our entire production community and how they have been so open with me about their process, regularly letting me know what I should expect in terms of developement and delivery.

OH, WAIT JUST A MINUTE! I have NEVER had such communications! NO ONE from Sony or Panasonic, much less their team leaders, have EVER asked for my opinions or shared with me their process or updated me on their delivery esimates.

I've also been thinking about the many customers I have worked for over the years, and the many customers I work for now, and how some of them really "GET IT". Some of them appreciate that we try to make every project something to be proud of, and to deliver more than what they are paying for. They understand that we are human and sometimes it requires a little flexibility to get something done right. But some of them do not "GET IT". They only care about what they want, when they want it. These type of customers will never "GET IT" and they will always create problems because of their unreasonable "ALL ABOUT ME" attitude. My business only has about a hundred current customers. I can not imagine how many "JUST DON'T GET IT" customers I would have if I had 4,000 plus total people to deal with.

Your process is part of what makes your company so freaking amazing.
Please don't let the "JUST DON'T GET IT" people ruin it for the rest of us.
 
Great idea Jim.

I am sooooo tired of hearing people bitch and whine as the release dates change. When I give an estimate to a customer on completion dates or even a simple how long will it take to get this scene I always pad it. I have found it to be one of the best ways to keep headaches and added stress out of my work day.

Just Pad your dates a bunch and then look like a hero when the cameras come earlier.

It still really perplexes me that some people are more interested in getting a camera now instead of getting a camera that is right.
 
Hmm...

I have to admit it's frustrating, after the dates have been pushed back so many times (remember "first cameras delivered late '06"?), to hear you say "add three months." For those whose camera number is scheduled to come up in a month or two, that's an additional 150-300% wait.

I was also surprised by the rollout schedule -- how the plan went from 25 per month to 400 -- and wondered how in the heck you planned to accomplish such a feat.

For future products, I think you should adopt a more conservative (realistic?) approach to shipping dates. But we've gotten used to taking the good news with the bad around here, and I think we better just stay on that road for the Red One. We all agree that open, honest communication is best, and part of why we like your company so much.

So, ah, seriously... how much of a delay are we talking here?
 
Jannard said:
We have tried our best to keep everyone posted on an up-to-minute account of our delivery schedule. That has always been the schedule we have internally of what we can do with the information we have at any given time. I'm wondering if that hasn't been a mistake.

There are so many things that can (and have) gone wrong, that maybe the best thing to do is to go to a more traditional way of forcasting? Take our internal forecasts, add three months as a safety, and then try to beat the schedule?

We have been "talking out loud" in an effort to be as open as conceivably possible. Should we go back to a more conservative approach? I'd be happy to hear your thoughts.

Jim
Click to expand...
There is research out "there" that says if a person is interrupted, it takes an average of about 14 minutes or so to get back to being fully immersed in what they were doing. If you feel all of you get more work done by not coping with individual "desires" from reduser forum members, that's cool.

On the other hand, British General "Monty" Montgomery made sure the entire 8th Army, from the lowest ranks on up, knew the battle plan for the breakout against Erwin "The Desert Fox" Rommel at El Alemein. The British pushed the vaunted Afrika Corp all the way back to Tobruk.

All I'm sayin' is there's benefits to either approach you choose. But you sir, are the Red ******.... so LEAD, MADDOG IT! LEAD!

That is, if that's alright with you..... Sir.
 
number6 said:
There is research out "there" that says if a person is interrupted, it takes an average of about 14 minutes or so to get back to being fully immersed in what they were doing. If you feel all of you get more work done by not coping with individual "desires" from reduser forum members, that's cool.

On the other hand, British General "Monty" Montgomery made sure the entire 8th Army, from the lowest ranks on up, knew the battle plan for the breakout against Erwin "The Desert Fox" Rommel at El Alemein. The British pushed the vaunted Afrika Corp all the way back to Tobruk.

All I'm sayin' is there's benefits to either approach you choose. But you sir, are the Red ******.... so LEAD, MADDOG IT! LEAD!

That is, if that's alright with you..... Sir.
Click to expand...

Heh Heh, that is why I encourage clients to come in while I edit
their project while the clock is running! I average 50% more billable
time by doing so. After the first few projects the clients "get it"
and tell me to just do it. I would much rather be busy all day
with projects without client involvement. I get way more done
and I can deliver on time and thus garner more projects. I know
how Jim feels.
 
Jannard said:
We have tried our best to keep everyone posted on an up-to-minute account of our delivery schedule. That has always been the schedule we have internally of what we can do with the information we have at any given time. I'm wondering if that hasn't been a mistake.

There are so many things that can (and have) gone wrong, that maybe the best thing to do is to go to a more traditional way of forcasting? Take our internal forecasts, add three months as a safety, and then try to beat the schedule?

We have been "talking out loud" in an effort to be as open as conceivably possible. Should we go back to a more conservative approach? I'd be happy to hear your thoughts.

Jim
Click to expand...

12 more posts before you hit 1000 mark Jim.
If you are big brother in our family of redusers and if we are hungry and you went out to hunt for breakfast(Pancakes or sausage biscuits or)and you are held up in traffic and the little ones are crying with hunger and some even saying they never liked their bigbrother (because you were slightly delayed) anyway:
"would you answer the cell phone from home?"
Babu
 
babubu said:
12 more posts before you hit 1000 mark Jim.
If you are big brother in our family of redusers and if we are hungry and you went out to hunt for breakfast(Pancakes or sausage biscuits or)and you are held up in traffic and the little ones are crying with hunger and some even saying they never liked their bigbrother (because you were slightly delayed) anyway:
"would you answer the cell phone from home?"
Babu
Click to expand...

Babu... that's babel.
 
Jim,

For anyone who is actually listening to what you have said all along, it is well known that the dates you give are best case. And that is the right approach in my opinion. What I don't want is for you to pad the dates then tell me 2-3 months early that my camera is ready. Now I have to come up with the money much earlier than expected. Since this is a personal purchase for me, I need to know the EARLIEST I will need to have the cash available.

Those folks who are planning a big shoot the day after they're tentatively scheduled to take delivery are, at best, not very experienced in the industry. Those seeking a "competitive advantage" (someone actually said that in this thread somewhere), if that really is your motivation, why aren't you renting NOW? Why wait for your own camera? That competitive advantage goes away with time. If it really exists (does a real movie maker really care about such things?), it is at its peek now!
 
...but to keep the whiney butts at bay, why not just e-mail directly reservation holders only with estimated dates? On this forum, merely tell everyone what camera number you have just delivered every so often with at most an extremely loose date for camera 1000, 2000, 4000 etc. - like 2000 sometime in spring/summer.
 
The old saying is true. The truth can hurt. Instead of lying to us and padding out the release schedule with a lot of possibly unnessary time, which would be as condesending as the rest of the business world...you're treating us like the big boys and girls we are and playing it straight. I applaud that thinking and hope it continues throughout the rest of the product line.

It's possibly those people who are buying to rent out that may have gotten themselves in a bit of a pickle by not allowing for any unforseeable delays in the delivery of their camera.

We're all aware that this is the first of a new line of products. We should hope for no delays, but plan for them on our end. It's the most basic consideration.

So in my opinion you keep on truckin' Jim and let us go on stressing. If we're stressing it only means we still care enough to stress. Don't coddle us.

Mik.
 
Jim,

The approach has been amazing it just needs continuity. If I knew that sometime Sunday night Jim does a weekly or bi weekly update of the "State of RED", and it was front page on the website or here, then it would serve RED and the users best.

You get to condense a weeks worth of stuff into one brief blurb per week. The rest of the time you can use posts to probe and inquire.

Realize that many people check in here to see what YOU have posted because so much of it rests in your hands, so I think you would be doing the community a great service to provide an "official red update" at timed interval to lessen the amount of rumor and misinformation.

David
I've PM'd Jarred and Rob Lohman my suggestions on one type of sticky I feel could work in conjunction with a weekly update and it considers what users will need when you are past this phase and have many more users to deal with.
 
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