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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Delay news... sort of.

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Häakon said:
It shouldn't matter if he's number 10 or number 1400. If he has a reservation, it means he ponied up early, took a chance, put down his money, and invested in the company. I can see how any reservation holder would consider it a smack in the face for someone else to skip way ahead in line and get to shoot their movie with the camera just because they have a recognized name or deep pockets.
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I think on the surface it may seem like they may be sidestepping the first reservation holders. But we don't even have many facts to go on here, or do we have any? Beta testing cameras is different than shipping viable production units (which the reservation numbers are for). The RED crew will be best serving their needs and all of us reservation holders by rigorously testing the cameras to the fullest extents possible. And it seems to make perfect sense that they would try to place beta units in the hands of big name, big budget productions so they can be worked over immediately. It's also good marketing for RED to get these cameras out there in such a way.

I don't have a very low number, but I think that if I did, I wouldn't feel much different about it. I'm jones'n for my RED as much as anyone else here, I think. And if I were a low number holder, I would be glad that the cameras are being thoroughly tested before I commit to using one on a production. Not all of us want to be or have time to be beta testers. Admittedly though, I'd love to be one in this situation... But I don't have the resources or production facilities to do the task justice.
 
Häakon said:
I appreciate your reply, but there are two separate issues at hand here: one is that at several motion pictures are being shot right now with RED cameras well before any reservation holder (who put money down 18 months ago) has had the chance to, and two is that because of the delays, they've been able to address other issues which will in turn shorten production between the earlier serial numbers and the rest of the lot (and potentially minimize any advantage of being an early reservation holder). The poster you originally quoted (in the 1300s) was taking issue with the first situation, and my post about the delays (and your serial number) was the second. Just so we're clear. :-)
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Yeah, I understand. and I do understand your frustration, but what can be done at this point? i know that you realize these things happen in life. yes, people with early numbers will probably lose some cache, if the production really goes straight into full swing, but you know as well as i do that life isn't always fair. what are they supposed to do at this point?....only manufacture 200, then stop, so the early-number guys can "get an edge"? really, what are you suggesting?

Testing these cameras on major studio shoots is a great idea, IMO - for two reasons. First of all, us guys around here are mainly just amateurs compared the people working on a $100 million movies, like the one shooting with Red in Europe right now, or with Peter Jackson doing tests in NZ. What is going to be a better real-world test while they are busy trying to sort out these manufacturing/technical issues? - major movies with super-knowledgeable and respected ACS guys putting these cameras through ever conceivable situation on giant sets, or yahoos like us fiddling around with them? These are not production cameras they are shooting with now, they are prototypes, so it's kind of a false dichotomy to suggest that these prototypes would be in Shawn's hands, for example, if they were not in the hands of the studio guys using them now. They would not be in anyone's hands, except Red employees. Also, by testing these out on major shoots with famous crews, actors, DPs, etc, it is going to generate great buzz and help establish the camera. The more popular and tested and supported the RED camera is, the more likely it is that things such as the rumored Dell 4K flatscreen LCD will actually happen.

the investment was only $1,000, and to be honest with you, all the time all of us have spent here contributing ideas and being a part of this thing -- for me, it has already been time well spent.
 
Appease the masses

Appease the masses

I still think it would be beneficial for everyone if you allowed a smaller budget independent film like "The Ice Shield of Aletheia" to use a Beta Camera along with the big budget features, Mr. Jannard. We can prove that you don't have to have 100 million dollars to make a high quality, entertaining film. Even an action film.

This fits in with Red's philosophy. An opportunity for everyone to have access to high quality equipment, not just the richest.

Either way, I'm still excited to use this camera, whether now, or next year, or the next.
 
Hey Jim, I tried to send you a message like I could before, but that appears to be clamped down now. So here is the PM

"Hey Jim,
Sorry for sounding like I was grumping. I'm truly just really excited about being in the very first batch of your cameras and perhaps it is a bit selfish of me to want it before everyone else. I'm very, very glad that you are taking the final production so cautiously. I'll try to stay more positive.
-Shawn"
 
Shawn you can still say you're #27, and I still can never say I reserved early enough to get a number, I just ordered after reservations were over ;) lol, that's cool, right?!

But yeah I get what you mean. I'm personally glad in the sense that I wouldn't want to have to wait forever between the early reservation holders getting their cameras and me getting mine. Obviously I'll have to wait, but hopefully not too long (7,8 months would be long).
 
I understand the point of view of early reservation holders, especially the top 100, but at this point I think we should be happy with just getting the damn camera and the already promised $2500. And if its specifications exceed our expectations, all the better.
 
Can someone explain to me how you'd convince anyone shooting a $100M production to use prototype cameras?
If nothing else the underwriters would have a heart attack at the mere thought of this.
Putting a prototype camera onto the set of $100M budget production alongside a film camera makes sense. That way if the prototype has a glitch no harm done.
Imagine the potential for negative press letting that $100M production hinge on a prototype camera.
 
I've also been a bit down about the quicker ramp up once things do ship, but, I felt a bit better after thinking of a possible benefit to us who reserved early:

Another way of looking at this is that by the time the production cameras DO begin to ship, the public excitement over Red will be heightened more becuse of the big productions. So there will be less of the "wait and see" to get at our low res numbered cameras. Maybe people will be at our doors quicker and we can be turning the lower-paying jobs down sooner.
 
Tom said:
us guys around here are mainly just amateurs compared the people working on a $100 million movies, like the one shooting with Red in Europe right now, or with Peter Jackson doing tests in NZ.
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If you make your living doing this kind of work...whether it is a $100 million dollar feature, or your getting paid a daily rate working docs, tv shows or weddings, you are still a professional. And to imply that is not the case is insulting. Please just speak for yourself. If you consider yourself an amateur, great. I feel just as entitled as the next guy, even though I do not work on $100 milion dollar features.
 
I truly want to believe all this.

But i think our frustration mainly comes from not knowing any res holder as a beta tester. Some of us are true experts ( no...not me).

Second, i dont undertand why a major film company would shoot with a camera before a basic beta testing had been conducted.
How can beta testing be conducted during a big production shooting ?

Maybe it's my poor english, but i feel i'm missing something.

Not that i want to be negative.

I want to be Positive !
 
Häakon said:
It shouldn't matter if he's number 10 or number 1400. If he has a reservation, it means he ponied up early, took a chance, put down his money, and invested in the company. I can see how any reservation holder would consider it a smack in the face for someone else to skip way ahead in line and get to shoot their movie with the camera just because they have a recognized name or deep pockets.
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Yep, feels like the good old days of elementary school where the big kids got to cut in line at the drinking fountain. At least in school the principal would punish the them for cutting in line if they were caught and not usher them to the front.

If the projects the beta cameras are being used for are red test based and not commercially based for profit movies then I am misunderstanding this and am totally wrong. If not then I have trouble seeing it any other way then big guys win and money talks.
 
I think we all need to go get a good night's rest--we're getting cranky with eachother. Anyone else feel like they need a hug?
 
I need more than a hug, finner's avatar makes me so hot ! lol
-A
 
getken said:
I feel just as entitled as the next guy, even though I do not work on $100 milion dollar features.
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Sorry I was just speaking hyperbolically.

Still, I'm sure you can understand why having these cameras tested on a big movie set would be useful. And again, having prototypes tested by studio productions does not take anything away from people with reservation numbers, since they are simply prototypes, and manufacturing has not even begun.
 
Come here everyone.

Well, except Finner. Can you just stand over there? I'll think a happy thought your way.
 
I have been following this thread closely all day.

RED is a revolution. If you want to win you put the guns in all available hands. I think it is great that RED is using the larger productions as a testing ground. To me it shows tremendous confidence in the product. Would you hand it over to someone who could foil your whole revolution in ONE American cinematographer feature article. BRAVO RED team for having the sack to put your product into this kind of trial by fire.

On the point of early reservation holders. You guys have played a critical role and you should be applauded, but you should want thousands of these camera's to ship on the same day. It protects you rather than hurts you. If you have been locked away, hoping that RED would be your "best kept secret" then that is wrong thinking. You got behind a great idea, you helped support it and you should be glad that you did, but expecting an enormously special break for investing 1K is just a bit to much to ask.

It's great that things have taken off. How would you feel if you had invested and felt you should be asking for your money back, or if these guys had run through the cash without a substantial product.

We all applaud you for being the first. We are all going to benfit from that and for that we are going to have to be eternally greatful. There are many souls responsible for any revolution, look at your role for what it is and know that your chutzpa helped make it happen.

Revolution, evolution.

David
 
how did we end up with 100 mil budgets ?
it was said a "handful of Beta prototypes " ...which could mean 2-7 projects ? maybe they are being used for SFX , 2nd unit or 10-20 mil budgets or a 3 mil budget ? or there could be one huge budget in there ..


it also states "our field reps present at each project to watch over the production" RED doesn't have alot of employee's so i think that keeps the number of productions under several ??

the more testing the better the camera ... i'd rather have X studio have problems and solve them before i receive a camera ...

there was never a promise that a low serial number would give one a exclusive hold on the camera for X number of days before more are shipped ...
perhaps 20 or maybe 500 will be shipped 1st month ?
IMO the sooner they they get out there in numbers the better for all projects ...
 
There are 4 major projects that will receive RED Beta prototypes. None will have audio and all will only record 4K REDCODE RAW.

Jim
 
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