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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dec. 3rd responses here...

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I hope the RED servers are powered up.
 
Jason Ing said:
How about the existing 12 bit?

And what does going to 16 bit do then?
Click to expand...

Roughly speaking You need about 1-bit per stop - therefore 12-bit will only give You at most 12-stop of direct DR. Most current film stocks have about 14 stops of DR, which is "coincidentally" about the same as the sensitivity of an average human eye (less the floating sensitivity). So 16-bit gives You enough overhead to match and exceed the DR of both the current film stocks and the human eye...

:)
 
Peter Majtan said:
Roughly speaking You need about 1-bit per stop - therefore 12-bit will only give You at most 12-stop of direct DR. Most current film stocks have about 14 stops of DR, which is "coincidentally" about the same as the sensitivity of an average human eye (less the floating sensitivity). So 16-bit gives You enough overhead to match and exceed the DR of both the current film stocks and the human eye...

:)
Click to expand...


How does a bit relate to a stop? Or is that just rule of thumb?
 
Peter Majtan said:
Roughly speaking You need about 1-bit per stop - therefore 12-bit will only give You at most 12-stop of direct DR. Most current film stocks have about 14 stops of DR, which is "coincidentally" about the same as the sensitivity of an average human eye (less the floating sensitivity). So 16-bit gives You enough overhead to match and exceed the DR of both the current film stocks and the human eye...

:)
Click to expand...

So the Monstro sensor is truly the equivalent of film. What about the SS35 with 12bit and 11 stops? Getting the sensor means getting 1 more stop and maybe something else?
 
Jason Ing said:
So the Monstro sensor is truly the equivalent of film. What about the SS35 with 12bit and 11 stops? Getting the sensor means getting 1 more stop and maybe something else?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to ask this - but could someone please give me (the world) a clear definition of "a stop"?

I have yet to understand and I've scoured the net looking for a down-to-earth explanation.

Thanks in advance!
 
Peter Majtan said:
Meaning? :)
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R1 has a 12 bit sensor but it doesn't give you 12 stops DR, does it?
You have to take the noise floor into account, and other factor that ensure that almost always theoretical results are better than empirical ones.

If you need 14+ stops, get a 16bit sensor :).

BTW how many stops DR does the 14bit genesis provide?
 
Peter Majtan said:
It doesn't bother me personally (since we are getting ours delivered this week), but what You are saying is no fair against all those who could not afford to buy Red One and were forced to rent it instead. I would guess that was majority of the Red Ones sold were not for a private DP use, but rather for rental. If if wasn't for all those who rented the cameras - far fewer would have been sold... I have been renting the camera for really long time and only now manage to put together enough money with my partners to buy one for ourselves. Does that make me (and many others like us) "less committed"?
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I don't think you are less committed, but those who DID purchase the camera made a far greater financial commitment than you did. RED cannot count on the rental houses to sustain their business. The RED One is already a very capable camera. RED needs to continue to move units, they can't rent them out. I'm not fighting you on this, I'm just trying to give a third party perspective.

Doesn't RED offer any kind of financing on purchasing bodies, accessories, etc.? It would enable cinematographers like yourself to get going, to start making money to repay your costs, what in essence you are already doing.

I think Jim should liquidate all his assets and become a lending institution himself. He can then finance those who "share the dream." :tongue:
 
time machine

time machine

I think RED just invented the time machine

noticed we're all discussing the december 3rd announcement whereas California is still well into dec the 2nd ?

With that technology embedded in Epic-X you'll soon be able to offload your CFs cards the day before the shooting... giving you a full night to review your future work, spot the problems with focus or anything and be able to make even better images the next day.
 
Jason Ing said:
So the Monstro sensor is truly the equivalent of film. What about the SS35 with 12bit and 11 stops? Getting the sensor means getting 1 more stop and maybe something else?
Click to expand...

... when it comes to stops...

Silicon is a different medium from film. For better or worse, I think that's not the most interesting discussion.

What IS interesting is "enough" DR and pixles for your use.

Just my 2c
 
znelson said:
How does a bit relate to a stop? Or is that just rule of thumb?
Click to expand...

"The exposure range of a device is usually expressed in stops, which are equivalent to log2(c) where c is the medium or device's contrast ratio. For example, average Digital Video (DV) has a contrast ratio of 45:1, so its exposure range is roughly 5.5 stops. Film has an exposure range of approximately 14 stops, currently the highest in motion picture mediums."

:) Peter
 
C'mon Jim, I'm so tired I can't barely make sense. Gimme the Scarlet news already! :D
 
What happened to that real name thing anyway? Time for enforcement ...


DogDay.
 
znelson said:
I'm sorry to ask this - but could someone please give me (the world) a clear definition of "a stop"?

I have yet to understand and I've scoured the net looking for a down-to-earth explanation.

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

I'm not eloquent enough to explain myself,but take a look at Ansel Adams explanation of his Zone System,I think that makes it all quite clear.
Tom.
 
Jason Ing said:
So the Monstro sensor is truly the equivalent of film. What about the SS35 with 12bit and 11 stops? Getting the sensor means getting 1 more stop and maybe something else?
Click to expand...

Except that with digital your DR takes a considerable hit when you apply film-like curves to it. So you lose some DR trying to emulate the sort of highlight roll-off that film has built in to it.

So I doubt even the Monstro sensor is quite there yet. But they're certainly getting close.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
... when it comes to stops...

Silicon is a different medium from film. For better or worse, I think that's not the most interesting discussion.

What IS interesting is "enough" DR and pixles for your use.

Just my 2c
Click to expand...

If film had enough DR and Monstro is equivalent to film, then wouldn't that be enough?

I'm also concerned about "color fidelity" or the ability to capture all the color that is there. I remember when I tried out the rebel to see if digital was far enough along for me to make the switch. But when I shot a simple colored glass sculpture, it didn't capture all the subtle variations of the color that I clearly saw with my eye. Same thing for film. Shooting 50 ASA captures more color then 400 ASA.

I'm wondering at what bit depth is that equivalent ability like 50 ASA?
 
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