Dear Jim/RED - Scarlet firmware upgrade

[Daniel Peters]

So since the price drop, people seem to be happy and pissed.

Lots of firmware upgrade talk.

Even though I am very happy with my Scarlet, since the Redone dropped so low. I think its fair we/scarlet users get a firmware upgrade.

I understand if you want an Epic, buy an EPIC...we got a scarlet knowing the differences between the two etc etc.

I think even if we had to pay for a good firmware upgrade, most Red Scarlet users will be fine with it.

Say £100/$100 upgrade

and as it seems, most scarlet users would like:

5K at 25/24fps
4K at 48/60fps 25fps HDRx
3K at 120fps

To be honest, I think we deserve 120fps at 3K. Only due to the fact of the Redone dropping so low, which has 120fps at 2K.

To give us/Scarlet users 120fps at 4k/5K is too close to EPIC and I can understand that.
No crop would also be great but also understand that being too close to the EPIC.

So I think 120fps at 3K should be upgradable with 4k at 48/60fps.
With the little bits and bobs, flipscreen, power management etc

free PL mount, free SD card...ok I took it too far. Or did I hehe

Seriously just my 2 cents
Daniel

 

[Martin Weiss]

None of RED's cameras have some magic capability built-in that just waits to be released by a firmware update. RED has always made it clear that if you want higher frame rates, go the Epic route. It has also been clear that the framerate limitation is because of hardware limits.

If you need higher fps, then the Epic incidentally has become ever so more affordable.

Of course I can always find a situation where I would love to shoot 5k in 96fps HDRx, but then it is my job to get the right tool for the job, and not demand the tool to change itself.

I'm just getting a bit tired of the feeling of entitlement by some. R1, Scarlet and Epic are fantastic cameras and churn out fantastic images - in the right hands. People managed to tell beautiful stories long before there were cameras this capable. I think we should all just move on and concentrate on the things we can change, and improve our crafts.

 

[Bob Gundu]

No offense but what would paying for upgrades change? These cameras are in constant Beta and continously improving. And I may have missed somethig, but why do we deserve this? Yes it would be nice, but to deserve it? We should also stop comparing scarlet to Red One. Especially pricing. Those are BT and have run their course. Soon they will be gone and so will there clearence pricing.

 

[Daniel Peters]

No offense but what would paying for upgrades change? These cameras are in constant Beta and continously improving. And I may have missed somethig, but why do we deserve this? Yes it would be nice, but to deserve it?

I didnt mean deserve it in a greedy way or angry way...just bringing up the discussion since the price drops

if the REDONE has 120fps at 2K and its cheaper then the Scarlet that doesnt have 120fps at 2K
maybe we should be entitled to 120fps at 2k
would love it at 3K

it was just a thought i feel be discussed
as for everything else, Im more then happy to wait for the dragon upgrade

I know RED mentioned a big firmware in DEC, so as mentioned...this is just my 2 cents

 

[Martin Weiss]

"Entitled" is just the wrong word in this context. After all Scarlet is already way more than RED ever promised.

I just find this discussion fruitless as it combines the sense of entitlement with something technically impossible.

...

I for one am very much looking forward to the power management and other frame ratios in the next firmware, which is due in December.

 

[Daniel Peters]

ok entitled is the wrong word..haha

would like
would be awesome

 

[Patrick Tong]

Daniel +1 :yesnod:

 

[Mestizo Devon]

"Entitled" is just the wrong word in this context. After all Scarlet is already way more than RED ever promised.

I just find this discussion fruitless as it combines the sense of entitlement with something technically impossible.

...

I for one am very much looking forward to the power management and other frame ratios in the next firmware, which is due in December.

Nonsense, all the features have not been implemented!

 

[Brian Pascale]

Personally I don't feel Red owes me anything. I bought my Scarlet with my eyes open and know from experience that it would go down in value re-sale wise. I don't think it is a perfect camera, but does produce stunning images with a little knowledge and care. I do love that it gets upgraded for free via firmware and am looking forward to the new release. Ultimately I will upgrade to a Epic Dragon when I can afford to do so. If Red decides to offer an upgrade path to do so, I would most likely happily accept if I can afford it. Or not as the price the Epic has dropped and I would prefer to keep my Scarlet as a second camera.

 

[Wil Wong]

I Don't think we are "Entitled" or "Deserve" any freebies. After reading a lot of threads in recent times, I do know that Scarlet owners are more then willing to pay for one of the following options below (Should RED decide to offer). We hope that they will give us an upgrade route (I and many prefer number 1). We just shouldn't expect like they owe us anything. That's being greedy (which I know is not the intent of your post but kind of comes off that way). Here are some of the options should RED decide to offer:

1. Upgrade program Trade-In (plus cash) to an Epic (with or without dragon)
2. Dragon sensor purchase (that gives you 5K and the features you've been asking...but still not as high as the Epic)
3. Dragon sensor purchase (that gives you all the qualities of the Epic for the price that matches)

I don't think a simple software/firmware change is in the cards. We would have gotten an software upgrade already had it been possible and don't think RED would put resources on trying to get it to happen if it can't currently (why would they when they should be concentrating on other R&D).

Anyhow, I am happy to be a Scarlet owner and if the chance to upgrade to a Epic, I would be willing to pay for it to have those capabilities.

 

[Max M.]

I hope scarlet never gets 5K 24/25 fps. Now already the it's way to close to the epic actually, the only thing what justify's the (formerly) huge price difference is framerates, please keep this separation. As a epic owner scarlet is already eating quite alot in epic terrority, when higher frame rates will be possible it's end of game for the epic rentals. And as earlier said, it's the hardware restriction that makes the scarlet cheap. Scarlet owners knew the restriction when buying.

 

[Damian Mizzi]

After all Scarlet is already way more than RED ever promised.
.

I don't think you're completely right on that statment mate. Look at the price and specs for Epic down below. (faster frame rates, less.. lesser price now). Now look at the price and specs for Scarlet. (Frame rates nope, price not so much). That's well over 3 years ago mate, when that kind of technology seemed to be a "bit" more expensive. Oh and by the way, the 2/3" Scarlet brain was targeted to have an internal procosser that could handle 120fps at 3K and sell for less than $3K.

Everything Changes... ...Not for the Scarlet guys

 

[Martin Weiss]

That is an unfair comparison. I never bought a Scarlet S35. I bought a Scarlet X, and got HDRx, higher dynamic range, autofocus and many other things on top of that. RED had changed the specs of the Scarlet many times before you could order a camera. It's sort of like telling Ford to give you a 2000 horsepower car, because in the 1940s everybody thought that cars would be flying by 2000.

You've been on reduser since 2008, and should know how RED operates. Everything's subject to change. And usually for the better.

But in the end it really comes down to how you approach life. You can dwell on all the things that should have been and might have been "if only", or you are happy with what you have and proud of what you've achieved.

 

[Damian Mizzi]

Oh God?!! You must be joking. That's not the point.. If Scarlet got HDRx, better dynamic and everything... SO DID EPIC. and for a much lower price. And there is no point of settling here. You could settle and be happy, with a dslr, and even shoot some video on your iphone. Of course I'd be proud. But seriously do not tell this to people who invest money on professional tools.

 

[Damian Mizzi]

I'm sorry mate, I don't mean to be rude, and I mean no disrespect, but that comment was like a 1000 volts into my brain.

 

[Martin Weiss]

The problem is, you should not invest money on professional tools. Tools go down in prices, and changes happen quickly. It's been like that for a number of years. We can argue about perceived fairness and entitlements all day long, but you can't fight reality.

One should have a businessplan where you can write off equipment costs within a reasonable timeframe (about 1 year for camera bodies and laptops, longer for lights and lenses).

The tech industry is so volatile, you cannot bet your horses on a resale value down the road. This is exactly why rental is such a tough business, and again, it's been like that for a few years now.

 

[Maik Müller]

The current RED One pricing steals a bit of Scarlet's show, i agree to that. But those RED Ones are battle-tested and come with limited warranty, they're also eol, not upgradeable and they're the last ones, sooner or later gone.

So no, i don't think we really need a specs-upgrade for our Scarlet to justify it.

But i think that, when those R1's are gone, there is a bit room for RED to improve Scarlet here and there, they don't have to protect R1-sales anymore. But honestly, i do trust Jim and Jarred when they said that Scarlet's specs are not only limited by software. I don't think we will have 5k-motion magically appear via a firmware update.

But there is room for 4.5k, WS-modes, anamorphic and the sometimes mentioned new HDRx-mode, that will allow 4k/HDRx-motion. Maybe we get a few fps here and there, maybe, but expecting or asking for doubling the current framerates or even more (3k@120) will just get you disappointed. Offering money for such a magic software update doesn't change anything and you shouldn't think this is only about money. This is not how RED works.

I'm pretty sure we will hear this year about possible upgrade-paths into the Dragon-era, a path to EPIC got a lot more realistic with the latest price-drop, and maybe there is one or another surprise in the v4 betas coming for us Scarlet-owners.

 

[Björn Benckert]

5k wide screen, or even super wide screen must be possible... like shooting a wide strip in the middle of the sensor. Im not building sensors but it seams logic that a wide 5k 2.41 frame would be as easy to render and store on the mag as a 4k 16:9. So that limitation is most likely to make the scarlet differ from the Epic. But even though we only own an epic and no scarlet I think it would be great if red maxed out the capacity of every setup / brain.

For sure the scarlet can shoot a 4:3 cropped 4k or so called 4k Ana.. and when doing so gain some frame rate compared to 16:9 4k. do not know if it can squeze the picture but my guess is that the tech is in there. if so, please RED release it. I see no point in holding the scarlet back in any way. I love to see a 8k USD RED camera kick the competition as high up as possible

5k wide screen is not available on any other camera other than RED that I know of, not even a beast like F65 can do it... so that alone would be a kick aming for the face or atleast for the belly..

 

[Eric Ransdell]

I'm sorry, but we've been in the business for the last seven years here in Shanghai. And maybe it's just the fact that we're in China, but I've never known anyone in the production/rental biz whose business model has been based on reselling old gear. The Mac Pro towers we bought three years ago to do Amazing Race are now worth about nothing, but reselling them was never the plan. It's basically ride the curve down and make as much out of them as you can until they are obsolete (and we're still billing them out every other day using that old war horse FCP 7). I feel the pain of everyone who thinks their Epic just got halved overnight, that sucks. But Scarlet's a different story. And what a lot of people seem to be upset about is a price drop that is much less than what we're talking about if you buy a new car off the lot. Dragon upgrade or no Dragon upgrade, you got into the 4K game at a fire sale price with a camera that is heads and shoulders above the baked-in look of the C300. And if you're smart you'll monetize it and buy the next iteration that Red throws our way.

 

[Eric Ransdell]

Sorry, addendum, what I meant to say is: "...if you're smart, and talented, you'll monetize it and buy the next iteration that Red throws our way."

It's late here in China. But then again, it always is.