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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Day rate for scarlet-w

I hear you about the raven. But the one main thing it doesn't have is PL mount. I'm pretty confident the Scarlet-W will work perfectly alongside my Epic Dragon. A Buddy I shoot with sometimes owns a weapon, and it will be a nice B-cam for him as well. and like i mentioned before, I want to shoot on red regardless.. there are some clients who would appreciate a discounted rate for the same image quality. I'm thinking 350-400 a day for a scarlet-w kit with batteries media and display
 
ive already been asked if i can get a weapon for this lower budget commercial coming up.

i think any red is rentable with you as a dp or OP, but only the newest, in this case it will be the weapon, is rentable to a professional production.
but that being said, no camera houses i know will be getting a scarlet-w, but i know a few getting a couple of ravens for specialty work, drones, car rigs, etc.
so the raven may be indeed a better investment for a rental only situation.
also, if you are renting it with yourself the price will be based on the size and need of the production, ive even charged $1k for a 5d pkg, but IT IS about having everything you need for your shoot camera wise, a production is more able to just give you 1000 dollars if you just supply everything…so monitor, tripod, support, lenses, etc.
if you are asking just so you can itemize and invoice, i'd put $500, which just seems cheap and fair to a production.
 
Daniel Reed said:
To answer the OP question, I peg the day rate for an SW owner/op at $0 to $250 and up to $500 for a week.

Sorry, but I don't see many paying north of $300 for someone to provide and hold a Scarlet for a "day"...
...unless it's for weddings I guess, or for delivery of an entire video product for corporate/commercial segments.
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As for the $0 to $250 comment, no Red owner with any self respect would do that as it's seriously low-balling everyone else and hurting yourself in the process. I'll do freebies or really low rates here and there for friends and their indy films to get some portfolio material and help-a-brother-out, but for real clients. $0 to $250? That's just shooting yourself and everyone else.

I'm getting a Scarlet-W and it's there as a package along with myself and would certainly never work for that. Just not worth your time.

I'm still on the LOWER end of the spectrum in Los Angeles, but I try and work with people that are reasonable.

Even with my much cheaper Sony FS7 package with myself included, the lowest rate for quick 3 to 5 hour corporate events or the poorest (friend) client is $400 to $500. Average FS7 jobs (sport docs for clients like MLB and Nike; and some scripted network promos) are usually between $650 to $1300. Good jobs (Networks) with an FS7 is between $1500 to $2000 a day.

Even lowly BTS jobs for decent clients (networks and commercials) get around $800 to $1000 for an FS7.

So I'm certainly hoping the Scarlet-W will get more than $0 to $250. That's just ridiculous. I know with the Scarlet-W I'm going to try and get at least $200 more per day over the FS7 package. I do realize more of the run/gun/doc stuff will be the FS7 and hoping to use the Scarlet-W for my better jobs.

The Scarlet-W is a much more capable camera than the Scarlet-Dragon. Since I mainly work in TV or internet stuff, it's always an HD finish so 5K is way more than plenty of res. Most stuff I shoot is 24fps, sometimes 60fps and very occasionally 120 fps (at which point I might suggestion renting a Weapon) or dropping down to 4K for better compression.

But yeah, I think for 80% of TV / web type jobs, Scarlet-W, 24fps at 5 to 1 (with occasional 60fps) is plenty good.
 
"i think any red is rentable with you as a dp or OP, but only the newest"

technically Scarket-W is the "newest" and once producers find out its basically epic stats in dsmc2 body im pretty sure they will be more than happy to use the camera. once again.. if people can PAY for 6k we have the tool that..if you want red dragon at 5k we have that for less..
 
It feels like the Scarlet W is an owner/operator camera that you want to keep close by and learn every aspect of. I've paid the deposit and if I follow though it's to school myself until I know the camera inside and out.

For me, the day rate is only applicable as a part of a larger offer where I'm tasked to deliver a complete product.

Imagine the day when you rent it for $250 and it comes back broken somehow and "it was nobody's fault—honestly!". You'll rethink your rate then. Not that it won't get fixed or is insured… but all that hassle for pocket change?

Nah.
 
Doug Beatty said:
snip:
Scarlet W is in a weird spot. First, I think that a lot of producers already know that they want Epic or Dragon. Mid to top tier productions are going to want Weapon soon. In their minds, Scarlet is more of an enthusiast or B camera.
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I disagree completely. Smart producers and scarlet-W owners with decent communication and sales skills will be able to explain the differences and significant improvements between the weapon cameras - including Scarlet-W (still wish they would call it weapon-S or weapon 5K) and all previous epics - epic dragon 6Ks included.

People here need to wrap their head around the fact that weapon has improved "picture quality" i.e. the things you actually see on a screen no matter what the resolution: improved/reduced smear, lower noise, slightly higher dynamic range, etc. PLUS all of the new goodies like Pro res, 3d luts, scratch mics, cable free monitoring, new modules from Red and others, etc.

Because of lens coverage and data management, 5K on Dragon is the sweet spot for most productions so unless there is an actual need for 6K/8K, or the even higher frame rates of those weapons - Scarlet-W is by no means an "enthusiast or B camera" it is in fact the sweet spot of the RED camera line - better in the most important ways than all of the previous epics.

One of our local rental houses has already put "dibs" on my scarlet-w as I am earlier in the queue and they have no weapons yet and they realize the need.

One could legitimately turn the "enthusiast/B camera" idea around and say "no, scarlet-W is the day-in day-out A-camera and Weapon 6K and 8K are specialty cameras.":wink5:
 
As someone who has been renting out his epic dragon package in LA for the last year (with me as a DP or 1st AC) I can safely say that I have lost out on more rentals because I don't own a panny 17" monitor and a wireless FIZ + wireless video system, then from a producer wanting a different brand of camera. I cannot overstate how much more important it is to have the proper AKS then just the body. Remember, productions are looking for CAMERA SYSTEMS, not CAMERA BODIES.

Side note: It seems (at least in my world) that people are absolutely loving what the DRAGON sensor can put out. So, assuming you are a good salesman, you should be able to sell a Raven or Scarlet-W to a thrifty producer. But I believe the numbers that have been thrown out in this thread are a bit ambitious (at least for the LA market.) With my EPIC DRAGON package (4x 512gb minimags, 7 inch touch and OLED EVF, all major lens mounts, Arri FF-4 and MB-29, Oconnor 1030ds, ET mantis rig and the new ET cage, SmallHD AC7, basically everything but client monitor and wireless) I usually get somewhere between 750-1250 but somewhat frequently can only get 400-600. I can't imagine that going any higher with a Scarlet-W.
 
And again these are just my experiences in the LA market. YMMV
 
AndreeMarkefors said:
It feels like the Scarlet W is an owner/operator camera that you want to keep close by and learn every aspect of. I've paid the deposit and if I follow though it's to school myself until I know the camera inside and out.

For me, the day rate is only applicable as a part of a larger offer where I'm tasked to deliver a complete product.

Imagine the day when you rent it for $250 and it comes back broken somehow and "it was nobody's fault—honestly!". You'll rethink your rate then. Not that it won't get fixed or is insured… but all that hassle for pocket change?

Nah.
Click to expand...

I think this is a good point and very similar reason to why I'm getting it, to learn the DSMC2 system inside and out. That way, you can run an 8K VV rental with no problems if needed. Know Red well, really ups your value and I'm just adding the camera along with myself. I feel the Scarlet-W is more of a camera that goes out with the operator. Not worth $250 for the stress, that's for sure.

As someone mentioned above, Red should have re-named it something else as I mentioned the Scarlet-W to a director friend last week and this is a quote-un-quote: "Oh, that's the lower end Red model, right?" A cool new name would have helped owner / operators as it's a much better camera now but Scarlet is associated with lower-end in the minds of many producers and directors. I guess it's up to us to convey the change now..
 
Gene Sung said:
As someone mentioned above, Red should have re-named it something else as I mentioned the Scarlet-W to a director friend last week and this is a quote-un-quote: "Oh, that's the lower end Red model, right?" A cool new name would have helped owner / operators as it's a much better camera now but Scarlet is associated with lower-end in the minds of many producers and directors. I guess it's up to us to convey the change now..
Click to expand...

Yes, I also like Michaels suggestion Weapon-S. It's fair too: same body and sensor should mean same images and general capabilities. S for "small", or Scarlet, if you will: only 5k and less fps.

Not that the name will change now of course. But in hindsight the camera is more Weapon-S than Scarlet-W. Were I an owner I'd probably refer to it as part of RED's Weapon system.
 
I agree just say its the 5K Weapon and the call the Raven the 4.5k Weapon lol
 
thing is producers know that the grey version is the free to very cheap version, last few jobs the behind the scenes guy was shooting with scarlets.
like i said, you can charge whatever you want when it comes to them actually paying for you expertise that comes with it.
but as a separate rental item for just the camera, youll have very little to no business.
 
I used to get Scarlet Rentals on a regular basis. It happens. I wouldn't say it was nearly as popular as my Epic but people would request a scarlet from time to time.
 
So basically, from what i read here, renters are just plain stupid right? They will not notice that the scarlet w can do 4:1 5kFF or 100fps @4.5kFF because of the grey color. Maybe, just maybe...., people were not renting the scarlet dragon because they know a little bit about cameras and because 5k 8:1 or 48fps were not enough. Is that a possibility?
And the scarlet W has a few things that the epic doesn't have. It will not be that simple I'm sure.
 
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sam karr said:
So basically, from what i read here, renters are just plain stupid right? They will not notice that the scarlet w can do 4:1 5kFF or 100fps @4.5kFF because of the grey color. Maybe, just maybe...., people were not renting the scarlet dragon because they know a little bit about cameras and because 5k 8:1 or 48fps were not enough. Is that a possibility?
Click to expand...
i wouldnt say stupid, but just not knowledgeable about updated and current specs, but if a weapon body is just a little bit more money then they go with what is better, as well its all the support and lensing that really dictates the cost of a package.
 
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