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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DaVinci Resolve Lite 8.1.1 released with unlimited nodes and DNxHD included

Alexander Ibrahim said:
This one doesn't make sense Jake.

Companies do this all the time. It's called R&D.

I think perhaps you aren't seeing the big picture ... Resolve has to compete against SpeedGrade which is coming almost certainly for free with CS6.

I'm gonna bet that SpeedGrade will support all the resolutions, formats and other technology Premiere Pro does. Plus I'm gonna bet it will integrate better with Premiere Pro than Color ever did with FCP 7.

That's fine ... until you see the strategy. BMD didn't buy DaVinci for Resolve or Revival. It bought DaVinci for control panels and the ability to lock an industry leading product into their hardware.

Speedgrade will probably work with BMD ... and AJA and BlueFish and Matrox ... and who knows what else.

The idea that to use Resolve you are locked into a BMD i/o card is attractive ... but it is only as good as the Resolve installed base.

So, now do you see the value of this move?
Click to expand...
Let's agree to disagree.
Small companies and individuals can't afford R&D. At least, not the type you're talking about. Assimilate is TINY company, because the color grading market is tiny. They had never invented a thing. They came into being, because at the time, $80k for a system was considered to be CHEAP:-)
Throughout the years DaVinci had done a ton of innovation and so is FilmLight, Image Systems and ColorFront.
Small companies come up with ideas and code them with an expectation of future financial reward. Free is not a reward. Look at Gluetools. No more FCP7, so where is their market now? What about, if Apple saw fit to include DPX support from the get go for free? Would he continue along that "free" path?
He didn't invent anything. He just saw the need to use DPX in FCP and he satisfied it, for $400:-)
Really, give me one example of what you're referring to, because I don't see it...
 
Bing Bailey said:
only in this netherworld that is totally disconnected from the real world is $1000 dollars for a piece of software considered cheap. I think davinci is going to end up being free for the full version. maybe you'll need to buy a piece of their hardware. but thats where its headed. $995 was a stop gap to soften the blow for high end houses with high end davinci rigs. writing on wall
Click to expand...
In all fairness Bing, some of us are coming from backgrounds that involved heavy iron equipment. For example, our Avid offline machines used to cost $40,000 and that was for AVR2, not even online quality. VFX systems used to easily climb into the six figures. Cameras used to cost $50-100K. 9GB Avid hard drives used to cost 3x what resolve costs. When you hear some of us say that this stuff is cheap, that is where we are coming from. Not disconnected at all. In fact, it could be argued the other way around. Some folks here have never actually worked in a post production facility, or worked on higher end productions. And that's okay, that's not what everyone sets out to do. I just wanted to give you the reference point for those that have been involved and can relate to the "low"pricing that has happened.

Honestly, I don't concern myself too much with this stuff. If you can get access to the tools and do something cool with them, that's a good thing.
 
Has anyone found a way of using Resolve on a Macbook Pro with Lion? The shell command that downscales the window for earlier versions of OS X doesn't seem to work on Lion.
 
The full version of Resolve will render 4K, has done for years. Currently you monitor a DCI-2K on the fly resize of the 4K.
There is much more in the pipeline for the full version.
Peter
 
Sam Eilertsen said:
Has anyone found a way of using Resolve on a Macbook Pro with Lion? The shell command that downscales the window for earlier versions of OS X doesn't seem to work on Lion.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Resolve 8.1 is qualified to run on 15" MacBook Pro with no need to resize.
 
Okay, let's change things up. Whether we like that it's free or not, it's here and I'd love to see what people are able to achieve with it. I'm still waiting for some hardware to run it, but if anyone has taken a crack at it and wants to post some examples of their work, with some insight to how they got there that would be a lot of fun, way more fun than talking about the philosophical or business side of Black-Magic. Anyone willing to post something?
 
While you guys are arguing the big, philosophical stuff, I have a very low level question maybe someone could answer... :wink5:

I have been admiring DaVinci Resolve Lite from afar but am confused about the reference to needing BlackMagic hardware. I am on a 6 core, 3.33 Ghz Mac Pro with an ATI Radeon 5770 and 12G of RAM. What hardware would I need to run Resolve and exactly what would the hardware do for me? Thanks.
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
There is a huge list here: http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/davinciresolve/compare/

2K + resolutions
3D - there are NO stereo 3D features in Resolve Lite.
Multiple Rocket
Multiple GPU
Noise Reduction

I don't use these:
Power Mastering
Remote Grading

Now .. .I mentioned 2K+ resolution, but Resolve is just a 2K system today.

I think they are preparing for a 4K future ... hell they may peer into their crystal ball and decide to support 8K too (at least theoretically) in software, by being completely resolution independent.

Today I don't see support today for using the Decklink 4K for output/monitoring. Or rendering to 4K resolutions/codecs.

All this is coming, and I think it will make the decision clearer. Especially as I think you'll see a lot more 4K destinations after "The Hobbit" and "Avatar 2" get distributed.

Also ... I think that 48fps is coming as a mainstream format. That puts even more pressure on the system processing ... which means you really need more GPU's and such.

3D with R3D sort of demands multiple Rockets.

There is plenty there for professional users.

Meanwhile, BMD has an interest in getting people to integrate Resolve NOW before Speedgrade ships with Adobe CS6 and people start using what came with their NLE.

EDIT: I wanted to add that there is no huge rush to enable 4K, even though its probably a critical future differentiator. Why? Go price a 4K panel/projector today. When those become more readily available ... then we'll see a race to make sure 4K really works well. I have high hopes for the various Red display projects.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure $1000 dollars is expensive. Its actually very cheap. I was one of the very first people to buy a copy. It was and still is a no brainer. I am still learning how to use it. the reason they have a free version is because they truly understand the learning curve is no joke. They even added 3 way LGG wheels for people like me who complained bitterly about the awkwardness of the interface. Well that is until I tried using both a tangent wave and MC color board. I now realize and appreciate how fast it is to work with the control surface, and why the interface is the way it is.
Resolve lite is certainly great but after you buy a DecklinK and Cuda card you'll appreciate it even more.
Speedgrade in CS6 will certainly not be free, no matter how you look at it. The numbers always add up mathematically. Resolve even if its free will not be a mass market product, because colorgrdaing still is a niche market and Artform.
Although I own what could essentially be termed a color grading suite, I still hire colorists and finishers to polish projects. But at least i can start experimenting with different grades saving them in the still store for the colorist to use.
I can't stress this over and over again, but colorgrading is like still life painting it takes real artistic talent.
 
Hi Terry,

Your low level question is well answered in our Resovle for Mac Config Guide which you can download from the Support area of the Blackmagic Design web site. But basically, you only need the BMD card if you need video monitoring. However, most people seem to desire that in a grading environment. Resolve will run without it. Resolve will also run in your 5770 based system, but not very quickly. For real performance, we recommend you use 2 video cards. One to drive the GUI display, and your 5770 is perfect for that. And one to act as a GPU accelerator to speed up color processing operations. We recommend a Quadro 4000 for that. You can find lots of discussion on this forum about other unsupported cheaper faster options people have used. Also, based on customer feedback, I would not recommend using anything less than a Mac Pro 4,1 system. We list the 3,1 as a supported system, but most people don't like the performance when using compressed file formats. It's OK for HD res DPX files, assuming your storage bandwidth supports that. But it really all depends on what you want to do with it. The nice thing is, you can try the Lite version for free, and see how it performs with your existing hardware.

Dwaine Maggart
Blackmagic Design Resolve Support
 
Terry VerHaar said:
While you guys are arguing the big, philosophical stuff, I have a very low level question maybe someone could answer... :wink5:

I have been admiring DaVinci Resolve Lite from afar but am confused about the reference to needing BlackMagic hardware. I am on a 6 core, 3.33 Ghz Mac Pro with an ATI Radeon 5770 and 12G of RAM. What hardware would I need to run Resolve and exactly what would the hardware do for me? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Hi Terry blackmagic has a configuration guide on its website, which will guide you on different levels of building a grading machine.
Having a blackmagic card greatly helps in monitoring your grade. It is not essential but very helpful.
 
Dwaine Maggart said:
Hi Terry,

Your low level question is well answered in our Resovle for Mac Config Guide which you can download from the Support area of the Blackmagic Design web site. But basically, you only need the BMD card if you need video monitoring. However, most people seem to desire that in a grading environment. Resolve will run without it. Resolve will also run in your 5770 based system, but not very quickly. For real performance, we recommend you use 2 video cards. One to drive the GUI display, and your 5770 is perfect for that. And one to act as a GPU accelerator to speed up color processing operations. We recommend a Quadro 4000 for that. You can find lots of discussion on this forum about other unsupported cheaper faster options people have used. Also, based on customer feedback, I would not recommend using anything less than a Mac Pro 4,1 system. We list the 3,1 as a supported system, but most people don't like the performance when using compressed file formats. It's OK for HD res DPX files, assuming your storage bandwidth supports that. But it really all depends on what you want to do with it. The nice thing is, you can try the Lite version for free, and see how it performs with your existing hardware.

Dwaine Maggart
Blackmagic Design Resolve Support
Click to expand...

Thanks, guys, for the quick answers. I did download the Lite version (haven't really done much with it yet) and I did read the config guide - was just confused about why I need the hardware since everything seemed to install, etc. Thanks for the suggestions about monitoring and the extra GPU. One last question: I have been a Mac user since 1984 but am not familiar with the reference to a Mac Pro 4,1 vs. a 3,1. Duh... (I guess). lol
 
Terry,
Go to the apple menu, and select "About This Mac".

Then click, "More Info..."

You should see a window with machine specs, including "Mac Pro 4,1" or whatever machine you have.
 
Jason Beckwith said:
Terry,
Go to the apple menu, and select "About This Mac".

Then click, "More Info..."

You should see a window with machine specs, including "Mac Pro 4,1" or whatever machine you have.
Click to expand...

Jason - thanks for trying to help... I am totally familiar with the "About this Mac" but get no designation of 4,1 or 3,1. Mine lists "Mac Pro Mid 2010" and then lists processor, memory, graphics card, serial number and software version (FWIW, Lion 10.7.2). What is the 4,1 or 3,1 supposed to represent?
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Jason - thanks for trying to help... I am totally familiar with the "About this Mac" but get no designation of 4,1 or 3,1. Mine lists "Mac Pro Mid 2010" and then lists processor, memory, graphics card, serial number and software version (FWIW, Lion 10.7.2). What is the 4,1 or 3,1 supposed to represent?
Click to expand...

Oh, sorry... If you are on Lion, there's one more step... Click "System Report..."

It will be under "Hardware Overview", after "Model Identifier:"
 
Jason Beckwith said:
Oh, sorry... If you are on Lion, there's one more step... Click "System Report..."

It will be under "Hardware Overview", after "Model Identifier:"
Click to expand...

Ah, thanks! So, it turns out I am 5,1. That's good, right? :-)

(Still not clear what those particular numbers reflect!)
 
jake blackstone said:
Really, give me one example of what you're referring to, because I don't see it...
Click to expand...

Without expectation of a financial reward of any sort?

Linux

Done by an individual.

More ?

Yahoo! That was just a directory for a long time ... it became Yahoo! inc. by accident.

The Fisher Space Pen? Fisher invented that out of patriotic zeal.

Now as it turns out, all of those turn a tidy profit today.

I remember a guy I worked with at Goddard. He wrote device drivers for whatever random network cards he could find. He was into clusters (Beowulf+Linux) and needed tons of cards so he got whatever he could find for free or cheap. That stuff was either outdated or just cheap, and both result in it having no support, including drivers for Linux. So he made them work, and gave his code away.

There are TONS of examples.

I mean ... RedCineX Pro is kickass software. Red could have stopped with RedCineX - Foundry was making a great product called Storm if you recall.

When RedCine X Pro came out, Foundry didn't cry about it. They added features to Storm and made Heiro.

Mac OS X is another example. Apple sells computers ... you need an OS to make the computer go, and in order to keep things reliable, Apple makes their own. It's essentially free with their hardware.

The same for the iDevices. iOS keeps on getting developed, and the support track record is better for iPhone models than any Android device yet. Many Android devices debut a major OS version behind, and most stop being developed for before the two year contract is up.

People have competed with free successfully as well.

Perhaps you've heard of bottled water? That is marketing shenanigans, but its also a huge industry that competes successfully with public water fountains and tap water in homes and offices.

Actually, let's come back to OS X.

Its based on BSD UNIX systems that are open source. Apple improved it to the point that it is arguably the best commercial OS, and it competes favorably with its sibling OS's. There are more OS X computers than there are of every other kind of UNIX or UNIX derivative combined.

Despite that, Apple gives away many of its core innovations. The engine behind Safari, their improvements to the UNIX code underneath OS X, their innovations in how you start processes, their implementation of printing, their JAVA system, OpenCL (which is only just gaining traction.)

Same for their iOS development ... they gave away FaceTime. It's an open system.

It's pretty common to just make things. If you make them well enough ... they sell.

You know ... "if you build it, they will come"

I don't think that either Black Magic or Adobe are going to stop innovating in their products.

I seriously doubt that Baselight or Quantel are calling it quits ... neither is Autodesk, Avid, Red Giant or even Apple.

This works easily in software, because there is little or no marginal cost for replication. Once BMD "paid off" their purchase of DaVinci ... they can give stuff away if that makes sense.

Now, are you still with me? Good, sit down... because this shit is about to get real.

Literally.

The economics I am talking about are about to cross from a virtual digital reality to actual reality.

Black Magic and Apple are design companies. So are all of us in a sense.

The day is coming when what Black Magic and Apple will sell are plans to make their gear.

That's because the value is not in the manufacture, but in the design.

How the hell are you supposed to make a Decklink 4K? Or a Mac Pro?

Well, you don't. You gather the materials and you sort of let it self assemble.

Sounds crazy right? Well, its gonna happen in our lifetimes. Probably in the next twenty years.

There are very radical ideas out there. For example, how about purchasing computing by the pound, like nuts? Little tiny computers that will network and execute a program. Need to go faster? Get more computer bits and dump them in a pile.

Need a dolly? Draw one, and go to bed. In the morning ... dolly!

That may be a more distant reality ... but its very easy to see how in very short time scales ... we will be able to draw a dolly and in the morning have a dolly kit.

OK, enough from me ... have a look at these, and note the year ....

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/neil_gershenfeld_on_fab_labs.html

http://www.ted.com/talks/saul_griffith_on_everyday_inventions.html

Yes those talks were 5 years ago.

Today, there is probably a fab lab near you. Many of the other ideas are evolving rapidly. You can already buy Computer controlled lathes ... just add blocks of metal and wait. Machines for rapid prototyping in plastics are getting cheaper, and the materials are getting strong enough that the "prototypes" are suited for final finished use.

We are at the PDP-11 stage. This technology will develop faster than computer technology did ... because its fundamentally a computer technology. Actually its better to say its an information technology.

Interesting times are coming. Especially for us. A lot of our tools are expensive because they serve such a small community. When the community can take over its own manufacturing - things like Red happen. Element Technica, Cinevate, Wooden Camera ... all very early examples of what these technologies will mean to the world.
 
With this release, I think my color work flow will mix back and forth between the new blender mesh lighting and Davinci. I don't think i would have used Davinci without this change. I also really love some of the new cards these guys are putting out. I also noticed that the linux version is available, but you can't download it (since there is no lite linux) ... i have a mac book pro which i use for cinema 4d, but i'd rather not use it. I think the windows version of davinci is all the way out to 2nd quarter of 2012 too ... which is killing me since i'm a linux/windows guy. I really hate to learn Davinci though without a console ... there some "low end...less then 25k" user interfaces that makes Davinci easier to use? I also don't see a ton of real good Davinci video's (i have been spoiled by lynda.com on premiere/after effects).
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
Without expectation of a financial reward of any sort?

Linux

Done by an individual.

More ?

Yahoo! That was just a directory for a long time ... it became Yahoo! inc. by accident.

The Fisher Space Pen? Fisher invented that out of patriotic zeal.

Now as it turns out, all of those turn a tidy profit today.

I remember a guy I worked with at Goddard. He wrote device drivers for whatever random network cards he could find. He was into clusters (Beowulf+Linux) and needed tons of cards so he got whatever he could find for free or cheap. That stuff was either outdated or just cheap, and both result in it having no support, including drivers for Linux. So he made them work, and gave his code away.

There are TONS of examples.

I mean ... RedCineX Pro is kickass software. Red could have stopped with RedCineX - Foundry was making a great product called Storm if you recall.

When RedCine X Pro came out, Foundry didn't cry about it. They added features to Storm and made Heiro.

Mac OS X is another example. Apple sells computers ... you need an OS to make the computer go, and in order to keep things reliable, Apple makes their own. It's essentially free with their hardware.

The same for the iDevices. iOS keeps on getting developed, and the support track record is better for iPhone models than any Android device yet. Many Android devices debut a major OS version behind, and most stop being developed for before the two year contract is up.

People have competed with free successfully as well.

Perhaps you've heard of bottled water? That is marketing shenanigans, but its also a huge industry that competes successfully with public water fountains and tap water in homes and offices.

Actually, let's come back to OS X.

Its based on BSD UNIX systems that are open source. Apple improved it to the point that it is arguably the best commercial OS, and it competes favorably with its sibling OS's. There are more OS X computers than there are of every other kind of UNIX or UNIX derivative combined.

Despite that, Apple gives away many of its core innovations. The engine behind Safari, their improvements to the UNIX code underneath OS X, their innovations in how you start processes, their implementation of printing, their JAVA system, OpenCL (which is only just gaining traction.)

Same for their iOS development ... they gave away FaceTime. It's an open system.

It's pretty common to just make things. If you make them well enough ... they sell.

You know ... "if you build it, they will come"

I don't think that either Black Magic or Adobe are going to stop innovating in their products.

I seriously doubt that Baselight or Quantel are calling it quits ... neither is Autodesk, Avid, Red Giant or even Apple.

This works easily in software, because there is little or no marginal cost for replication. Once BMD "paid off" their purchase of DaVinci ... they can give stuff away if that makes sense.

Now, are you still with me? Good, sit down... because this shit is about to get real.

Literally.

The economics I am talking about are about to cross from a virtual digital reality to actual reality.

Black Magic and Apple are design companies. So are all of us in a sense.

The day is coming when what Black Magic and Apple will sell are plans to make their gear.

That's because the value is not in the manufacture, but in the design.

How the hell are you supposed to make a Decklink 4K? Or a Mac Pro?

Well, you don't. You gather the materials and you sort of let it self assemble.

Sounds crazy right? Well, its gonna happen in our lifetimes. Probably in the next twenty years.

There are very radical ideas out there. For example, how about purchasing computing by the pound, like nuts? Little tiny computers that will network and execute a program. Need to go faster? Get more computer bits and dump them in a pile.

Need a dolly? Draw one, and go to bed. In the morning ... dolly!

That may be a more distant reality ... but its very easy to see how in very short time scales ... we will be able to draw a dolly and in the morning have a dolly kit.

OK, enough from me ... have a look at these, and note the year ....

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/neil_gershenfeld_on_fab_labs.html

http://www.ted.com/talks/saul_griffith_on_everyday_inventions.html

Yes those talks were 5 years ago.

Today, there is probably a fab lab near you. Many of the other ideas are evolving rapidly. You can already buy Computer controlled lathes ... just add blocks of metal and wait. Machines for rapid prototyping in plastics are getting cheaper, and the materials are getting strong enough that the "prototypes" are suited for final finished use.

We are at the PDP-11 stage. This technology will develop faster than computer technology did ... because its fundamentally a computer technology. Actually its better to say its an information technology.

Interesting times are coming. Especially for us. A lot of our tools are expensive because they serve such a small community. When the community can take over its own manufacturing - things like Red happen. Element Technica, Cinevate, Wooden Camera ... all very early examples of what these technologies will mean to the world.
Click to expand...

It's an interesting read, except, that it wasn't my question. This is my question:
"So, please give me one example of a truly free, innovative product marketed by a company, that doesn't sell other products in order to subsidize that "free" product:-)"
If you read my question, you'll see, that your examples do not cut it. And please remember. We're talking about a very small industry, more a cottage industry- color grading, that is by any measure tiny. There are altruists, but relying on altruists for innovation is not a sound business plan . People need to get paid for their work. That is unless they live in Communist society. And from personal experience, that ain't as great as some let you believe:-)
 
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