Davinci Resolve 12.5? NAB2016

[jake blackstone]

Hey JAck...
Database is not compatible, version in windows 12.5 beta not working with 12.3.2/1 on MAc, different database give me a error to connect.
But if you have same release is possible to share database from Windows to MAc or if you prefer MAc to Windows.

That's kinda expected, so I'll have to wait a bit before I upgrade both. 12.5 is still in beta...
Thank you for all your efforts Luigivaltulini.

 

[M.Halsell]

Jake and Luigi, you guys identified a good practical peer to peer ProRes solution for anyone interested. PC/Mac, 2 Resolve dongles can address that pesky issue.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Yes, that is my understanding. Windows computer is just used to initiate the render, but once it is handed off to a Mac for rendering, Windows computer is free again to be used for grading. This is another great benefit to being able to render on a second machine.

That sounds fuzzy to me. Where's the source files coming from? Where's the session files coming from? The Mac can't draw those files from thin air. If you tried to access the same session on the Windows machine while the render was going on, could the computer take the stress? Even if you started a different session with different files, it's going to have to have access to the drive, unless you have multiple source file drives. There's a lot of "but's" here.

Even with Avid ISIS and similar multi-user systems, I have seen cases where if you hit the same server multiple times with a lot of users, everything slows down for everybody. I don't think this is a transparent situation -- I think everything will take a performance hit, particularly if you have a long project. I would be very surprised if the Windows machine could merrily roll on and work on a different timeline with the same project and not affect the background render happening.

What would work would be just to Export the session, have a drive with a duplicate of all the source files, and open that session file on a Mac and render out the session there. In that case, you could go on and do whatever you want with the Windows machine, because it's not involved with the render at all. Only the Mac is rendering, and the drive is untouched. This costs no more than having a Mac and a PC sitting next to each other in the first place -- except for the duplicate drive.

I 100% agree with Jake that it's dicey to upgrade if you're in the middle of projects. Either way, backup your project database before making the switch, because 12.5 is a forward-only path. Can't go back once the database has been changed.

 

[M.Halsell]

In a single user scenario, the shared media shouldn't be too knee buckling.

 

[jake blackstone]

That sounds fuzzy to me. Where's the source files coming from? Where's the session files coming from? The Mac can't draw those files from thin air. If you tried to access the same session on the Windows machine while the render was going on, could the computer take the stress? Even if you started a different session with different files, it's going to have to have access to the drive, unless you have multiple source file drives. There's a lot of "but's" here.

Even with Avid ISIS and similar multi-user systems, I have seen cases where if you hit the same server multiple times with a lot of users, everything slows down for everybody. I don't think this is a transparent situation -- I think everything will take a performance hit, particularly if you have a long project. I would be very surprised if the Windows machine could merrily roll on and work on a different timeline with the same project and not affect the background render happening.

What would work would be just to Export the session, have a drive with a duplicate of all the source files, and open that session file on a Mac and render out the session there. In that case, you could go on and do whatever you want with the Windows machine, because it's not involved with the render at all. Only the Mac is rendering, and the drive is untouched. This costs no more than having a Mac and a PC sitting next to each other in the first place -- except for the duplicate drive.

I 100% agree with Jake that it's dicey to upgrade if you're in the middle of projects. Either way, backup your project database before making the switch, because 12.5 is a forward-only path. Can't go back once the database has been changed.

Marc.
Please read the whole thread. All you questions already had been answered by Luigi.
Start reading here:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...12-5-NAB2016&p=1617859&viewfull=1#post1617859

 

[luigivaltulini]

That sounds fuzzy to me. Where's the source files coming from? Where's the session files coming from? The Mac can't draw those files from thin air. If you tried to access the same session on the Windows machine while the render was going on, could the computer take the stress? Even if you started a different session with different files, it's going to have to have access to the drive, unless you have multiple source file drives. There's a lot of "but's" here.

Even with Avid ISIS and similar multi-user systems, I have seen cases where if you hit the same server multiple times with a lot of users, everything slows down for everybody. I don't think this is a transparent situation -- I think everything will take a performance hit, particularly if you have a long project. I would be very surprised if the Windows machine could merrily roll on and work on a different timeline with the same project and not affect the background render happening.

What would work would be just to Export the session, have a drive with a duplicate of all the source files, and open that session file on a Mac and render out the session there. In that case, you could go on and do whatever you want with the Windows machine, because it's not involved with the render at all. Only the Mac is rendering, and the drive is untouched. This costs no more than having a Mac and a PC sitting next to each other in the first place -- except for the duplicate drive.

I 100% agree with Jake that it's dicey to upgrade if you're in the middle of projects. Either way, backup your project database before making the switch, because 12.5 is a forward-only path. Can't go back once the database has been changed.

Marc, you can continue to do the grading on the same timeline of the project ... I have not tried to change the timeline or switch users .. I will do this test in the next few days, so I can let you know.
Raid hard drives are on the Windows PC, I mount disks via Samba on OS X and the database is shared by MAC .There have no files on Mac.

If you have questions or concerns or anything I can try let me know

 

[luigivaltulini]

Ok MARC for you i played today little test ..

Configuration:
1 PC and 1 MAC Pro , davinci 12.5 . Pc with internal raid disk is Master for grade Mac is Remote render.
Pc and Mac is connected by only 1gb NETWORK LAN ( ip example 192.168.1.10 PC and 192.168.1.11 MAC), PC share and Mac mount with Samba protocol disk. I share D: with guest user and read and write.
Mac configured for share PosgreSQL and PC connect to MAC for database.
Open Mac and Create a new database , with user and pasword and ip 127.0.0.1 , open PC and connect to database MAC with same user and password but ip is MAC (192.168.1.11), remember configure pg_hda.conf for accept ip and restart server PosgresSQL.
but I think you already know these things.

What you can do:

Open new user and i create 1 project with 3 timeline , when you finish to grade 1 timeline you send to remote for render and start .
Perfect, now when Mac render your 1 timeline in prores 422hq i open in Pc the 2 timeline and grade without problem, when finish you send this to render in prores 4444xq
Good, now i make log off and i create new user and new project and new timeline and grade this (remember the MAC in this moment render 1 and 2 timeline) , finish i send this to Mac for render in DPX.
finally.. i crete new timeline with RED R3D and grade this and finally for test i render this in local PC in DNxHr 4444, now MAC have terminate 1 timeline to render.
Then you can launch any rendering from any user and project, but the PC is independent of everything.


ok the problem I can see is the shared disk, if I use a 10 gb lan PC sometimes go in spurts, I went back on the 1 gb and all work without a hiccup.
But if you have a Raid 12 disks believe that you have no problems

 

[M.Halsell]

ok the problem I can see is the shared disk, if I use a 10 gb lan PC sometimes go in spurts, I went back on the 1 gb and all work without a hiccup.
But if you have a Raid 12 disks believe that you have no problems

Were the data payload sizes identical on the jumbo frames setting? And/or the switch or router support the same size jumbo frames?

 

[M.Halsell]

Are the mattes and rotoscope isolation keys created in Fusion available in Resolve via round tripping?

 

[Marc Wielage]

Then you can launch any rendering from any user and project, but the PC is independent of everything. ok the problem I can see is the shared disk, if I use a 10 gb lan PC sometimes go in spurts, I went back on the 1 gb and all work without a hiccup.
But if you have a Raid 12 disks believe that you have no problems

I'm assuming you can't work on "Session 1" on both the PC and the Mac at the same time? What if the Mac was rendering, but I had that timeline open and was making changes on Windows? I assume that wouldn't work, or at least the changes would not make it to the render.

I actually wouldn't mind if the render kind of slowed down, but it'd be a drag if the color-correction session slowed down (which I have seen on some systems).

I greatly appreciate your tests, Luigi! Grazie mille!

 

[jake blackstone]

I'm assuming you can't work on "Session 1" on both the PC and the Mac at the same time? What if the Mac was rendering, but I had that timeline open and was making changes on Windows? I assume that wouldn't work, or at least the changes would not make it to the render.

I can't imagine this scenario working under any circumstances. You're actually asking to start a render and as you're making changes, you want those changes to appear in the ongoing render? Can you do it now on a Mac? Why would that be any different?
Once you initiated a render on a remote machine, that render at that point committed and it will be finished, no matter what you do on a local machine. As that render is in process, you can continue working on your local machine. Once that render is finished, you are free to start a new render with new grades.

 

[luigivaltulini]

Were the data payload sizes identical on the jumbo frames setting? And/or the switch or router support the same size jumbo frames?

Thanks Halsell yep jumboframes is ok, i think is problem on my internal raid, why when use external raid go fast

I'm assuming you can't work on "Session 1" on both the PC and the Mac at the same time? What if the Mac was rendering, but I had that timeline open and was making changes on Windows? I assume that wouldn't work, or at least the changes would not make it to the render.

!

Yep MArc, when you use Windows Pc on session 1 if you open the same session in MAc is in READY ONLY, is possible to grade but not save the same name project.

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an interesting thing would also integrate media management for the transcoding of files in remote, perhaps in the next relaise

 

[jake blackstone]

an interesting thing would also integrate media management for the transcoding of files in remote, perhaps in the next relaise

It would be, but so far, I am only able to consolidate (trim) R3D for short projects, like commercials. When it comes to long form, like features, I can never do a full media manage session all the way through. Usually around the middle of the feature Resolve will stop. But if it worked, yes, that would be great to do on a remote machine.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Thanks Halsell yep jumboframes is ok, i think is problem on my internal raid, why when use external raid go fast Yep MArc, when you use Windows Pc on session 1 if you open the same session in MAc is in READY ONLY, is possible to grade but not save the same name project.

Excellent. I appreciate that info, Luigi!

And in fairness to both me and Jake: the 12.5 manual is kind of vague on these specifics, and I think they should probably go in and clarify and add these warnings and explanations to how and why sharing a ProRes render between Windows & Mac machines can and cannot work.

I again agree 100% with Jake that pretty much the only thing holding me to running Resolve under Mac OSX are the limitations with ProRes. I would strongly consider junking the Mac for my everyday use if I could use a (very powerful) Windows PC for correction, and then just hand off the render to a Mac sitting over in a corner. But since my drives are all Thunderbolt, it'd have to be a Windows system that integrates solidly with Thunderbolt. It's definitely an option I'll explore in the future.

 

[jake blackstone]

since my drives are all Thunderbolt, it'd have to be a Windows system that integrates solidly with Thunderbolt. It's definitely an option I'll explore in the future.

You can continue mounting your TB drives on a Mac and share them over the network with the Windows computer. It works by-directionally. Setting up a simple two computers network over the GigE is pretty trivial these days.

 

[luigivaltulini]

It would be, but so far, I am only able to consolidate (trim) R3D for short projects, like commercials. When it comes to long form, like features, I can never do a full media manage session all the way through. Usually around the middle of the feature Resolve will stop. But if it worked, yes, that would be great to do on a remote machine.

yep JAck

Excellent. I appreciate that info, Luigi!

And in fairness to both me and Jake: the 12.5 manual is kind of vague on these specifics, and I think they should probably go in and clarify and add these warnings and explanations to how and why sharing a ProRes render between Windows & Mac machines can and cannot work.

I again agree 100% with Jake that pretty much the only thing holding me to running Resolve under Mac OSX are the limitations with ProRes. I would strongly consider junking the Mac for my everyday use if I could use a (very powerful) Windows PC for correction, and then just hand off the render to a Mac sitting over in a corner. But since my drives are all Thunderbolt, it'd have to be a Windows system that integrates solidly with Thunderbolt. It's definitely an option I'll explore in the future.

MArc excuse me , because you have bad experiences with Thunderbolt in Windows?
I'm running on a Supermicro X10dax with Thunderbolt-2 .
But hey this PC is fucking beast about half price of top MAc now.
If you think my pc is dual xeon 2696V3 + 1400w dual power Case, 2 Titan-x, MB x10DAX ,thunderbolt 2, 64gb ram is about 6000 dollar now, WTF with this price you buy only a new 6 core trash MAc pro ..

 

[Subhadip Sen]

Thunderbolt 2 has been working very well on Windows systems. But it is Thunderbolt 3 that's the game changer - which finally brings the promise of PCIe come through over a USB Type C port. Won't make much difference for hard drives, but opens up a world of options.

Skylake TB3 motherboards are a plenty, and Broadwell-E motherboards with TB3 are starting to roll out ahead of the CPU launch. I'm not sure if there are any Xeon E5 v4 TB3 motherboards yet, but I'm sure some are coming.

 

[Mike Halper]

Does this method of getting ProRes rendering in Windows via a Mac over the network utilize the CPU and GPU of the Windows computer or the Mac?

 

[jake blackstone]

Does this method of getting ProRes rendering in Windows via a Mac over the network utilize the CPU and GPU of the Windows computer or the Mac?

Windows computer just hands off the project for rendering to the Mac. Once it's sent, Windows have nothing to do with it, it's all Mac rendering. At that point you can get back to grading on Windows.

 

[M.Halsell]

If the TB3/eGPU materializes as a robust solution, I may try rigging a Mac mini to my PC as a companion render only appliance.