DaVinci for Mac, game changer or game over?

[Arttie Puig]

Artie,

do you know for sure if Resolve is a conform and mastering tool as well as grading? What kind of compositing and audio compatibility if so? If Resolve is really just a grading tool, then it can't be something that would compete with Scratch outside of grading. For grading, yes, I believe DaVinci is going to be superior at the moment, but I think we are comparing tools that also do quite different tasks. But am trying to get confirmation on Resolves functionality other than grading.

To be honest I don't know, I never used it myself, I know my favorite colorists use mostly DaVinci, and for quite a while, so the conform obviously have to be done before proceeding with the grading. I would believe you can, but if not I'm sure there should be plenty of workflows.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

From what I've seen on the Assimilate site, Scratch can ingest from decks and film scanners.

I was on their site trying to find out if telecine capablity exist. I didn't see anything while doing a cursary glance... can you confrm this?

Paul... Yes resolve is a conform and mastering tool with support for multiple EDLs and Quad playhead. The capabilities are listed in Chapter 4 of the manual.

 

[jake blackstone]

I'm a Marine... I have leatherneck skin. The reason why I wanted to know about telecine control is because I would like to know the limitations of each system. I also don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility for our company to acquire a telecine machine.

---

Paul have you read the resolve manual? Anyone know where I can get the scratch finishing manual?

Are you interested in real time grading or just film scanning? You can do much better with a scanner, than with traditional telecine. At this point only Davinci, Baselight and Filmmaster can control telecine, but all BL and FM do are directing telecine to output video and then it gets captured as a stream of DPX with an I/O card for color grading. Also, film scanners are much cheaper and produce far better quality images, while being just a little bit slower.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

I'm more interested in real time color grading upto 4k but would like to know the system in and out to compare how they stack up to each other.

 

[jake blackstone]

I was on their site trying to find out if telecine capablity exist. I didn't see anything while doing a cursary glance... can you confrm this?

Paul... Yes resolve is a conform and mastering tool with support for multiple EDLs and Quad playhead. The capabilities are listed in Chapter 4 of the manual.

Resolve's conforming capabilities are pretty standard- EDL and Cut List, not sure about ALE. Resolve doesn't support multiple layer timelline, so there is no plans to support at this time XML or AAF. Big ommisions, but not that suprising.

 

[Paul Buhl]

Than all you're talking about is an ability to drop the VFX shot into already graded time line, so existing grade gets applied to it. Then the answer is yes, Resolve can do it very easily. It's a standard feature on pretty much all of grading systems.

Understood. So the complete question I have about Resolve is can it address the ENTIRE following work-flow: I would need to first transcode 20-25 hours of 4K R3D to ProRes, I would then edit with the transcoded ProRes in FCP, make an XML (or EDL, but prefer XML if possible) of the sequence, ingest into Resolve
as a conformed 2K DPX Log sequence, perform color grade (of course), drop VFX on top of graded base video, bring audio 2 track in from mix to pix source, output all as 2K DPX file based or to tape (HDCam SR). If Resolve can serve all of that, then I would agree it's a serious problem for Scratch, especially because of the color grade being DaVinci. Just trying to find the best all in one finishing solution for the money.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

there is no plans to support at this time XML or AAF. Big ommisions, but not that suprising.

AAF is supported... Chapter 4 speaks of loading EDL or AAF.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

...Just trying to find the best all in one finishing solution for the money.

Hey Paul (and everyone else...)

If anybody wants to learn about SCRATCH *specifically* in terms of what it really does and doesn't do - an open listserv/forum is not the place to do it.

I encourage anyone who wants to learn more to email me off-list:

lucas (at) assimilateinc (dot) com.

We are a small company, but we have employees and partners all over the world and can get just about anyone a personal demonstration in a fairly short amount of time.

I may take a day or two getting back to you, but I will get back to you.

Conversations between people about SCRATCH and Resolve who own neither system makes my eyes cross.

Lucas

 

[Andrae Palmer]

If Resolve can serve all of that, then I would agree it's a serious problem for Scratch, especially because of the color grade being DaVinci. Just trying to find the best all in one finishing solution for the money.

I'm not an expert by any means... but yes it does seem from all my reading so far that Resolve can do that.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

But not *one* person on this thread has seen anything other than a trade show demo of this product. Not one. And if you believe everything you see in a floor demo at NAB, I've got some lake property in the Mojave to sell you...

Lucas


Lucas Wilson
------------
Reality Police
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

Thanks for chiming in man. You crack me up! In the best and most respectful way... the levity and common sense are welcome!

Seriously, is Black Magic not representing on these boards like Arri is?

We ordered the software and we shall see

 

[shashbugu]

Resolve does do AAF, thats what we sent to the colorist here in LA, there is no reason why resolve mac wont be able in the long run to do XML import. Its a simple text based data file

Resolve's conforming capabilities are pretty standard- EDL and Cut List, not sure about ALE. Resolve doesn't support multiple layer timelline, so there is no plans to support at this time XML or AAF. Big ommisions, but not that suprising.

 

[jake blackstone]

Understood. So the complete question I have about Resolve is can it address the ENTIRE following work-flow: I would need to first transcode 20-25 hours of 4K R3D to ProRes, I would then edit with the transcoded ProRes in FCP, make an XML (or EDL, but prefer XML if possible) of the sequence, ingest into Resolve
as a conformed 2K DPX Log sequence, perform color grade (of course), drop VFX on top of graded base video, bring audio 2 track in from mix to pix source, output all as 2K DPX file based or to tape (HDCam SR). If Resolve can serve all of that, then I would agree it's a serious problem for Scratch, especially because of the color grade being DaVinci. Just trying to find the best all in one finishing solution for the money.

No XML, just EDL. You can conform your project from EDL using transcoded Prores or even better way, conform with original r3d, grade everything with 1/2 debayer up to 2k in real time and render out whatever you'd like, including 2k DPX with full quality r3d debayer. And, you can export DPX to VFX and then drop them back in. There is one thing Scratch can't do and that is an ability to write Prores. So, in a word, you can do all of it with no problem...

 

[Arttie Puig]

But not *one* person on this thread has seen anything other than a trade show demo of this product. Not one. And if you believe everything you see in a floor demo at NAB, I've got some lake property in the Mojave to sell you...

Lucas


Lucas Wilson
------------
Reality Police
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

First of all, I used Scratch and I love it, I think it's overpriced, even before BM announcement, but price aside, I love the soft.
But, I'm reading this, and I can't stop thinking, Lucas, you do demos at NAB too, shouldn't we believe you now?

 

[jake blackstone]

Resolve does do AAF, thats what we sent to the colorist here in LA, there is no reason why resolve mac wont be able in the long run to do XML import. Its a simple text based data file

According to the BM director of software development, there is no support nor there are plans for aaf or xml. Down the road, who knows... But just because you're sending aaf to the post house doesn't mean, that the conforming is done on Resolve. You can send me aaf file and I would gladly use it, but I grade on Lustre and it also only supports EDL and Cut Liist. What's the point of using aaf on Resolve, if it doesn't support multiple layered timeline?

 

[Mark Pedersen]

If not, it's Color with a more reputable name.

Mike,

Well, with all due respect, Davinci has been around a lot longer than color...

M

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Compositing in Scratch? Good luck.

See a demo of SCRATCH v5.1 before you go down that road any further.

How anyone could have seen anything, other than the demo at the show? Resolve on the Mac is very, very early beta of the product. It was just barely ported in time for NAB.

Right. So it is months away from shipping, and has zero actual customers in that configuration. Nobody knows how the 1K config will actually work. Many talk about it as if they had worked with it extensively and were intimately familiar with its configuration and execution. Reality = nobody knows. Resolve in its pre-BM configuration is a complex blend of hw/sw in an integrated Linux-based system. A port to OSX software-only is a huge undertaking.

It will take several months for it to shake out after it ships. I'm not saying this as a competitor wishing ill on the product. I'm saying it as someone who has worked for post-production software manufacturers for a good deal of my professional career and is realistic and knowledgeable about the process from an inside perspective.

But I'm curious, Lucas. It is easy to play lip service to love of disruptive technologies and announcements, but are you really excited about the announcement and why?

1) I believe the pricing models for dedicated systems in the post-production world are wildly out-of-skew. ASSIMILATE has been a fairly large disruptor in its market and has forced other manufacturers to respond accordingly in some ways. I believe the new Resolve pricing structure will continue that necessary trend in the industry.

2) Regardless of the actual realtime capabilities of the 1K Resolve when it ships... one thing it absolutely WILL do is put more creative power in the hands of people who previously could not afford it. And more power to the creatives is always a good thing in my book.

3) Companies making moves like this make my job continually more interesting. : )

Lucas

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

No XML, just EDL. You can conform your project from EDL using transcoded Prores or even better way, conform with original r3d, grade everything with 1/2 debayer up to 2k in real time and render out whatever you'd like, including 2k DPX with full quality r3d debayer. And, you can export DPX to VFX and then drop them back in. There is one thing Scratch can't do and that is an ability to write Prores. So, in a word, you can do all of it with no problem...

Hi Jake-

Curious, do you really work in less than 4K FUll Debayer when monitoring your color grade? Ive heard Deanan or someone say they would rather us use RR and get a full debayer beforehand and grade with Prores4444 then use a 2K half debayer of the r3d. If playback is an issue.

are you concerned at all since lots of information is missing in the half debayer? Yeah I know its there on render, but does it look the same?

thanks

 

[Paul Buhl]

or even better way, conform with original r3d...There is one thing Scratch can't do and that is an ability to write Prores

Yes, would definitely be conforming to 2K DPX from 4K R3D, ProRes would only be for offline cutting. Surprised to hear Scratch can't transcode to ProRes. I'm also looking at Baselight, and I'm finding it very impressive as well. For me, if I went with Resolve, I would go the full $50,000 software / Controller / Linux License, and even adding in the Linux hardware cost, Resolve looks very good.
I will contact Lucas about a Scratch demo, meanwhile, looking at online video demos.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

According to the BM director of software development, there is no support nor there are plans for aaf or xml. Down the road, who knows... But just because you're sending aaf to the post house doesn't mean, that the conforming is done on Resolve. You can send me aaf file and I would gladly use it, but I grade on Lustre and it also only supports EDL and Cut Liist. What's the point of using aaf on Resolve, if it doesn't support multiple layered timeline?

well the manual states that AAF is supported... you can check it yourself like I just did... Chapter 4 Page 63.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

First of all, I used Scratch and I love it, I think it's overpriced, even before BM announcement, but price aside, I love the soft.
But, I'm reading this, and I can't stop thinking, Lucas, you do demos at NAB too, shouldn't we believe you now?

I sorta saw that one coming... : )

Two answers to that:

1) There is a huge difference between a demo of a shipping and non-shipping product. With SCRATCH, you can get a list of customers to go talk to for unbiased opinions, and an eval license of the software so you can judge for yourself.

Resolve falls in an in-between space. There are many Resolve systems out there doing great work. For the record - I think Resolve is an awesome system. The first time I saw the tracker, I thought, "damn... we've got some work to do..."

But the OSX 1K version has not shipped and is not being used. So it (obviously) irritates me when people make sweeping claims about functionality when there isn't a single actual user!

2) If you see me doing a demo, you should absolutely not believe me. : )

Lucas