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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Convince me why my EPIC M costs about 5 times as the Scarlet package

Its stage 2 that feels the pinch

Its stage 2 that feels the pinch

Ok, I'm really reticent to join the fray, and complain. Don't kick the gift horse....

So first off: I love our Red one, I love our newly minted epec x, and I am sure I am going to love the Scarlet we bought last night.

I love that Red gave us almost 10k off purchasing their new camera for no good frickin reason other than that they are an amazing company....

However, as a late model (4000's) Red One owner, I kind of wish we had gone stage 3 and not stage 2. Because right now I am not worried about Scarlet making our Epic look bad, I am worried about Scarlet making our Red One look bad.


Who would haveknown that the Epic x production schedule and Epic M release would combine to mean: a) Epics have been out there making money at a premiumfor a full first season before we would get our hands on one and b) that stage 3 would be somuch faster than stage 2 in getting filled (an assumption at this point, but it looks that way right now with the way they havwramped up production)....

Hindsight seems to suggest the smart paths were a) Epic M or b) Stage 3.
But hey, we all know that hindsight is 20/20 (and 5k @300fps!)....
 
Are people seriously complaining about owning the best camera in the world?

Get real. You purchased an amazing camera with an amazing feature set at an untouchable price (yes, that EPIC-M at your desk could easily have been sold for 100K plus... or double that...) -- it isn't Jim's job (or Jannard's... or RED's) to make back your investment. Are you telling me that you're planning on renting purely based on the fact that you've got gear? In that case, it's not the gear's fault - it's simply a poor business move.

EPIC-X is probably the most amazing program in the world (referring to the stages here now). You get the best camera in the world and you don't have to pay the whole hog for it. If that isn't generous enough, I don't know what is...
 
My personal decisions were that if I could have made it work financially I would have bought the Epic M. I couldn't . But with the loyalty breaks given for the Epic X, there is no way I would buy the Scarlet X over the Epic X. Going forward, the Scarlet X customer and the Epic X customer will be decided based upon their needs and finances.

Everything now is as it should be. Everything past is as it should have been. Everything future in re: upgrades etc., I suspect will be as it should be. When you look back on how RED has made decisions, you can see the wisdom. No reason to expect that to change in the future.
 
the simple answer for me is... I have an Epic-M now... I have no idea when I will get my scarlet... I really don't care, because I have an Epic now. I am able to make pretty pictures now. I don't have to wait. Why shoot on anything less now if you have the funds for epic? If you don't, then its a no brainer to wait for scarlet, but I want options with frame rates, so that's why I have an Epic. Epic jobs will get epic prices, scarlet jobs, will get scarlet prices easy as that.

I don't understand why people are upset. Having scarlet will be a great 2nd cam, or camera to supplement my epic. Buy the best you can afford, you will never be unhappy. But when you need to get that frame rate and you can't, then you'll look back and say.... should have gotten the epic.
 
Look, if i could buy a New EPIC X for the same cost as the Stage 2 trade-in with warranty direct from the store now I would. Totally would have skipped scarlet, and just bought another EPIC.

But you cant.

EPIC is a better equipped camera, Period.

BUT, some projects do not require 5K HDRx or high speed, and why not have a camera available to indies or as a budget option to rental houses?

I personally hope the low cost VS performance of the Scarlet wipes out the need for us having to shoot projects on 5D or HD just because of budgets.

For the normal jobs, we have the EPIC.
 
You also have to remember too that future upgrades to the Dragon sensor or any other sensor in the future will cost more for Scarlet than for Epic.

My opinion: stop your bitching and start making your money back.
 
5,120 x 2,700 x 12 = 165.888 megapixels per second.

5,120 x 2,160 x 120 = 1327.104 megapixels per second.

1327.104 / 165.888 = 8x more data throughput in an Epic.

43000 / 9750 = 4.41x more money for an Epic M.

Problem?
 
Brook Willard said:
5,120 x 2,700 x 12 = 165.888 megapixels per second.

5,120 x 2,160 x 120 = 1327.104 megapixels per second.

1327.104 / 165.888 = 8x more data throughput in an Epic.

43000 / 9750 = 4.41x more money for an Epic M.

Problem?
Click to expand...

Pretty much sums it up. Biggest thing I can see apart from the frame rate difference is that Epic lets you do 24/25 fps HDRx at 5K. Scarlet only lets you do that at 3K... Scarlet is awesome (probably about the second best cinema camera in the world in most respects), but Epic is still massively worth the extra price...
 
it may be that i woke up on the wrong side of the bed, But if you need to have it explained to you then why are you in this? its so blatently obvious why the cameras M,X, Sx are valued at where they are (which if you ask me are priced unbelievably fair, thank you RED) that if you need to be taken by the nose and led through spec sheets and doubt your abailities to either shoot loveley images, or work them as a business and make your investments back then i say get out of the game...

summize...I think your doubts should look inward and not at RED, because to many of us have been doing this for some time and as far as equipment goes, Red has been easiest investment of all
 
People who didn't buy EPIC for the framerates will definitely have some buyers remorses.

Stephen Gentle said:
Pretty much sums it up. Biggest thing I can see apart from the frame rate difference is that Epic lets you do 24/25 fps HDRx at 5K. Scarlet only lets you do that at 3K... Scarlet is awesome (probably about the second best cinema camera in the world in most respects), but Epic is still massively worth the extra price...
Click to expand...
Alexa being #1 you really think EPIC is only 3rd best camera after Scarlet? Makes no sense.
 
Josh Snyder said:
People who didn't buy EPIC for the framerates will definitely have some buyers remorses.


Alexa being #1 you really think EPIC is only 3rd best camera after Scarlet? Makes no sense.
Click to expand...

Sorry to break it to you but after yesterday's announcement Alexa is now dead last. Scarlet-x will destroy the Alexa market
 
Peter Dmitriyev said:
Sorry to break it to you but after yesterday's announcement Alexa is now dead last. Scarlet-x will destroy the Alexa market
Click to expand...

i really think scarlet will not have influence on alexa, because people choose alex for workflow reasons, easy way to postproduction, no transcoding, direct 1920x1080 proves files, that is what is the strength of the alexa. Scarlet doesn't change red workflow, it's the same as dealing with Epic files. And it's not about price, when competing with the alexa...

So if you RED would bring out the beloved 1920x1080 prores module that records slomo, that would have serious impact on the alexa, because the epic becomes the same as the alexa + ALOT more....
 
Max M. said:
i really think scarlet will not have influence on alexa, because people choose alex for workflow reasons, easy way to postproduction, no transcoding, direct 1920x1080 proves files, that is what is the strength of the alexa. Scarlet doesn't change red workflow, it's the same as dealing with Epic files. And it's not about price, when competing with the alexa...

So if you RED would bring out the beloved 1920x1080 prores module that records slomo, that would have serious impact on the alexa, because the epic becomes the same as the alexa + ALOT more....
Click to expand...

you might have missed the "other" big announcement yesterday was Avid's new media composer which has native Redcode raw support, drag and drop, no transcode. Problem eliminated
 
well, i just wait for my epic-x (stage 4)
scarlet is great, but to mutch of an in between for me, ... it's limited, so, for limited jobs...
please Jim, make the stage 4 tomorow...

or...

or what ?


or... i'll wait more ... yes ! that's a threat !!!
 
Peter Dmitriyev said:
Sorry to break it to you but after yesterday's announcement Alexa is now dead last. Scarlet-x will destroy the Alexa market
Click to expand...
Alexa has better image than EPIC, so Scarlet is not destorying anything outside your daydreams.
 
Red is smart. Scarlet WILL hurt Epic sales. But it will also REALLY hurt Canon sales, and Sony sales. It will put a large slice of DSLR shooters in the Red arena. Canon created the DSLR large chip video Market 3 years ago. Its grown a lot. Most could not justify an Epic, ever. now they can justify a Scarlet and use all their Canon lenses. For Early Epic M adopters, with limited competition, you made a lot of rental money. Any late adopters of Epic M or will find MUCH competition for rentals. Those who had their lenses already paid for will do well renting their packages. I would not want to be someone Buying an Epic with the idea of renting it out. It may take a LONG time to recoup.

I do think a Scarlet, with say 3 Canon lenses, is going to be a great rental package. Cheap and highly capable. Total cost under $20k.
 
Josh Snyder said:
Alexa has better image than EPIC, so Scarlet is not destorying anything outside your daydreams.
Click to expand...

wow thats aggresive!!! guess your a tv guy. I guess David Fincher has it all wrong...
 
don't mind him sergio. he lives on the Red forums and is planning to buy an Epic himself yet claims Alexa is better ...RIGHT.........LOL!
 
Josh Snyder said:
Alexa has better image than EPIC, so Scarlet is not destorying anything outside your daydreams.
Click to expand...
You must be joshing.:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:
 
Richard ndumu said:
...
please Jim, make the stage 4 tomorow...

or...

or what ?


or... i'll wait more ... yes ! that's a threat !!!
Click to expand...

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:
 
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