Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Confirmation of Epic-S dropped?

Jarek Zabczynski said:
I was looking forward to the 120fps at 2k. Maybe with the Dragon upgrade we will get our Epic-S...
Click to expand...
I was looking forward to the 60FPS at 5K... even 48FPS. But hey, we get 4K at 24FPS at a price that MANY can afford. I'm happy with that.
 
Andrew McCarrick said:
The Epic-S would have been a perfect Red One replacement. Basically put the Red One into the Epic form factor, with modules. I think it would have fit nicely in between the Epic-X and Scarlet-X.
Click to expand...
I always felt that the EPIC-S was the replacement for the R1.
If you take the R1 out, there's definitely a nice place for the EPIC-S to take.
 
Even right now there are a few who fail to see the difference between the Scarlet and Epic and why there is a $20K disparity. To most, the gap is clear and the price differential justified. The "original" Epic-S specs would have cannibalized Epic too much I think. There NEEDS to be feature disparity for the sake of clear price points. The original specs of Scarlet 8x Fixed and Epic-S just were too good to be true honestly. They were well intentioned but not viable from a business perspective... that's how I see it.
 
Jannard said:
EPIC-S is Scarlet-X. Less than $10K for the brain. I thought that was obvious.

What would EPIC-S possibly have that Scarlet-X doesn't?

Jim
Click to expand...

Epic S, could be a

1-24P 5K
36P 4k (4k up to 25p HDRX)
Etc... less frame rates.... mid point between Epic X and Scarlet X. $17,500 Pricetag brain only.
 
Jannard said:
EPIC-S is Scarlet-X. Less than $10K for the brain. I thought that was obvious.

What would EPIC-S possibly have that Scarlet-X doesn't?

Jim
Click to expand...

5K up to 60fps
5K HDRx up to 30fps

I could live with the proposed Epic S

I can't live with Scarlet, it ends up aimed a bit too low.

I love the Epics and Scarlets, but I mean to keep my next camera until its dead and unrepairable. Scarlet doesn't fit the bill for me.

Epic X is always what I wanted ... so I'll keep saving I suppose. At this rate however ... my Epic will probably ship with a Dragon in it. That's good (one less toy to upgrade to) ... and bad (as in no new camera for me until 2013 or later)

Don't worry ... I'll figure out ways to send you my money for other stuff. Ha!
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
5K up to 60fps
5K HDRx up to 30fps

I could live with the proposed Epic S

I can't live with Scarlet, it ends up aimed a bit too low.
Click to expand...

Right with you, Alexander. Shooting Stereo 48fps on Epic-S at 4K or 5K sounded awesome to me :)

I was all set for:
A-cam: rent / buy Epic-S pair (48fps 5K)
B-cam: buy Scarlet Fixed pair (48fps 3K)
High-speed cam: rent Epic pair (120fps 5K)

When Scarlet became 3K at 48fps, it dropped off my A-cam list, but was too expensive for my B-cam list.

In ultra-low-budget film conditions (eg never enough light) I just couldn't see the MX sensor at 3K giving enough advantage to justify the cost (once you factor SSD and accessory prices) and weight.

Also, the C300 with its price, weight and low-light advantages looks interesting as a no-hassle lightweight stereo rig B-cam for an Epic shoot. Well, not the C300 per se...but whatever comes next, because they need to improve the specs a little bit (whenever their new chip is ready and they can stop using recycled parts from the XF305 :). Being restricted to great-looking 1080p - OK. Being restricted to 30p - OK. Being restricted to both - Suck!

Either way, it just looks like 2012 and 2013 are going to be really great competitive and awesome times for filmmakers. No excuse times for getting things done. I'm going back to my 70hr-per-week day job to increase the money pile first in anticipation :)

I'm sure that Scarlet falls nicely into tons of peoples' purchasing sweet spots. Unfortunately for me, it is just in an awkward place between A and B camera.

Hope Red makes Scarlet's successor (Red BADGER?) either smaller and lighter (B-cam) or 48fps 4K (A-cam)... with Dragon sensor... please!

Actually, if they name any product the Badger, I will buy it.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Scott Auerbach said:
I've just gotten word (only because I asked someone to check) from REDucation camp that there will be no Epic-S. As someone who's been waiting for it for a couple of years --and who reads every one of Jim's Recon posts-- I'm a bit baffled and disappointed by this. As recently as within the last 90 days, Jim had posted that there were no changes to the stages (Stage 4 being "Buy Epic S35 [later renamed Epic-S] brain").... and (in regard to placing a Stage 4 order before the January 1 price increase,) "Those who are paying attention will not be hurt."

Well, I've been paying close attention to every post I could find by RED employees (as opposed to rumor and speculation), and I've just conducted an hours-long search of the forum, and I see no formal announcement of Epic-S being dropped. Yet that's the answer RED provided earlier today when asked.

I know the "subject to change" mantra, but one does expect some acknowledgment, given the thousands of people waiting for an Epic-S, that it changed all the way to oblivion.
Click to expand...

Hi Scott,
I understand how those not following Reduser very closely (to me it was quite clear the Epic-S had, not been dropped but, been replaced by the Scarlet-X), also how some who planned around Red's previous announcements can be frustrated, however, 1st thing: what Red is offering is great! Secondly, there is no way everyone can be satisfied. Thirdly, some of your assumptions are incorrect, namely that the Epic S35 was renamed and therefore the same thing as the Epic-S! The Epic-S was the new name of the previously announced Scarlet S35, therefore if one were to look back a little further, you would realize Red finally decided to release the Scarlet S35, under the name Scarlet after all, and abandoned the name Epic-S. As to the Epic S35 (announced at $28'000), it is the Epic-X, quite simply.

Lastly I still hope Red haven't trashed all the R&D they put into the Scarlet 2/3rds, both fixed and interchangeable. I think there is a large potential for 2/3rds sensors and finishing in 1080p, but at 50 or 60 ips, for broadcast; for which a 3k sensor is perfect, as it does seem like the futur of broadcast is 1080p50/60

Cheers,
Damien
 
Guys, I agree that Epic and Scarlet are amazing values - the best in the biz. But I think Scott (and thousands of others) are looking for the camera that's in-between the two. $20-$30k all-in. More high-speed options than Scarlet. Say 1080p @ 90fps. 720p @ 120fps.
Maybe a future Scarlet firmware upgrade will address this. We can hope. ;)
In the mean time, I'm probably renting instead of buying.
Most appreciatively,
Jose A.
 
I'm highly doubting a firmware upgrade could bring higher FPS to lower levels, as it is they stated that they would TRY to get HDRX at 24fps on 4K.

It does not mean though that the camera could do 48fps on 4K, just some trickery and it would be possible. Now if they had said they could push 4K FPS to 48 then all other levels would be possible to see increase in FPS.

I do think though that this method means we could see Scarlet gaining FF35 at the same time EPIC does (yes dragon isn't confirmed but spec sheet from early developments were dead on with FPS wise. Next sensor was to be 6K and FF35). This though may end up like the R1 where you can't get the previous sensor (Pre-MX) after a certain length of time. Leading the price level to enter more towards the R1 level right now or maybe just a little below and the EPIC to take its place as REDs high end (where it already sits). The Scarlet will go mid and then that would leave room for a lower end, coming back in at 8-9 perhaps even 10-12K that could possibly offer all the features that everyone wants. Problem here is that it won't go with the whole 'upgrade but keep the same body' ideology. So I guess MX will be the first sensor that we won't see no longer available but instead we could have an 'EPIC-S' of sorts and a Scarlet. So Scarlet,EPIC-S(or the current Scarlet) and then EPIC.

Though this is all mindless thinking out loud. Makes sense though, people do seem to want a lot higher FPS but will probably only gain such functionality in a Scarlet through a sensor and parts upgrade.
Given RED can be full of surprises and it is christmas...
 
Scarlet-X is Scarlet-X, you want higher frame rates? I say buy an Epic-M or X, The scarlet is the perfect B-roll camera to the Epic, and a perfect main camera for many productions running off of a smaller budget! If the Scarlet-X were any better, even for a little more money...it would cut into the Epic-M and X market, forcing Epic owners to lower rates in competition with Scarlet-X...which is no good...

I say, thanks RED for the options. Scarlet-X is above and beyond what my expectations were for the Scarlet, and I like it the way it is. I will definitely be renting RED cameras for jobs until I can afford my own.

Jim, Jarred, Ted, Graemecode, Robcode (lol) and all the rest at RED, thank you for putting excellent tools within my reach!
 
I find it interesting that a lot of people still want a 2/3" Scarlet and a lot of people still want a Epic-S even with the release of Scarlet-X.

And before you people explode... calm down this this isn't a knock, just a simple observation.
 
if you are shooting commercials, music vids, by all means get an epic-m or Epic-X. If you are shooting Indie films, the Scarlet X might be a better choice for you, My two cents.
 
Solomon Nero said:
Scarlet-X is Scarlet-X, you want higher frame rates? I say buy an Epic-M or X, The scarlet is the perfect B-roll camera to the Epic, and a perfect main camera for many productions running off of a smaller budget! If the Scarlet-X were any better, even for a little more money...it would cut into the Epic-M and X market, forcing Epic owners to lower rates in competition with Scarlet-X...which is no good...

I say, thanks RED for the options. Scarlet-X is above and beyond what my expectations were for the Scarlet, and I like it the way it is. I will definitely be renting RED cameras for jobs until I can afford my own.
Click to expand...

OK - great for you :) But if you think that there was never a plan for an Epic-S with 48fps ability beyond 3K... you weren't paying attention. Oh hang on, you only joined Reduser in 2010. I guess I'm just not too sure why you feel offended that we ask what happened with the Epic-S.

Solomon Nero said:
Jim, Jarred, Ted, Graemecode, Robcode (lol) and all the rest at RED, thank you for putting excellent tools within my reach!
Click to expand...

Agree of course.

Tim Nitsch said:
I find it interesting that a lot of people still want a 2/3" Scarlet and a lot of people still want a Epic-S even with the release of Scarlet-X.

And before you people explode... calm down this this isn't a knock, just a simple observation.
Click to expand...

Not taken as such. But yes, compared to Epic-S (which would have been perfect A-camera for me), Scarlet is not quite enough... and for B-camera, Scarlet is too expensive, big and heavy for me.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Bruce:

I am laughing at this thread. Do you remember when Reel-Stream figured out how to hack the Panny HVX100 to get uncompressed, started selling them (as Andromeda), was about to do the same for the HD HVX200 (Hydra). http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?1254-HVX200-super-mod-for-2k-2-60fps-14bit-rgb&

Then, Reel-Stream was suddenly and quietly purchased and the owner gagged with a NDA. People freaked out that some corporate meanie was salting away the technology. (I hope it was not RED).

That was just 2-3 years ago. Read the DVXuser thread referenced in that old thread. Even as late as 1 or 2 years ago, people were anticipating the Scarlet (at $4k) and dismissing the technology in that hack.

Sure the Scarlet came in at a higher price than originally planned. But, I think a Panny HVX200 + Hydra-mod was going to cost about $9,000 if memory serves. And, Scarlet's technology bests the Hydra specs.

I still think the Scarlet is a bargain.

Damn if I'd like to know what the true and complete story with Juan and Reel-Stream is though.
 
I have to say I was also looking for the Epic-S, but what Red did was a revolution in itself. At that price point selling an almost Red One equivalent camera (even outperforming in certain frame rates) with that form factor opens the doors for productions like the one posted by Tonaci. I need the high speed ca[abilities of the Epic so I'm waiting for stage 4, but I think the current Scarlet is just out of this world. Bang for the buck for filmmakers, indeed. The Epic-S, I believe, will eventually come... In Scarlet updates. But my take is that Scarlet owners shouldn't hold their breath for them. They can take one, 2 or even 3 years to come. Right now, Scarlet is probably the one true no compromises, future proof cinema camera for indie filmmakers.
 
Michael Panfeld said:
Bruce:

I am laughing at this thread. Do you remember when Reel-Stream figured out how to hack the Panny HVX100 to get uncompressed, started selling them (as Andromeda), was about to do the same for the HD HVX200 (Hydra). http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?1254-HVX200-super-mod-for-2k-2-60fps-14bit-rgb&

Then, Reel-Stream was suddenly and quietly purchased and the owner gagged with a NDA. People freaked out that some corporate meanie was salting away the technology. (I hope it was not RED).

That was just 2-3 years ago. Read the DVXuser thread referenced in that old thread. Even as late as 1 or 2 years ago, people were anticipating the Scarlet (at $4k) and dismissing the technology in that hack.

Sure the Scarlet came in at a higher price than originally planned. But, I think a Panny HVX200 + Hydra-mod was going to cost about $9,000 if memory serves. And, Scarlet's technology bests the Hydra specs.

I still think the Scarlet is a bargain.

Damn if I'd like to know what the true and complete story with Juan and Reel-Stream is though.
Click to expand...

Thread title is about Epic-S. Scarlet came in at a lower price, not higher. Don't think you really read the thread properly before laughing at it :)

Scarlet is a bargain, sure. It's just a bargain aimed at a slightly different market than the Epic-S was. That's fine but I don't understand the need to laugh at folks politely wondering what happened to the Epic-S!

Also... Scarlet is a bargain because it bests the specs of a 4-year old camera hack for the same price? Um... just because a 2011 Mac Mini beats the specs of a 2007 Mac Pro doesn't mean that Mac Mini should is a bargain if it costs > $2000 - because it's under the cost of a 2007 Mac Pro adjusted for inflation?

Scarlet is a bargain for other reasons, not for that one :)

I always thought Hydra / Andromeda looked cumbersome... But yeah, am curious RE what happened, sure! Someone needs to track down Juan from his secret hiding place. Not sure really what this has to do with Epic-S though.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Bruce Allen said:
OK - great for you :) But if you think that there was never a plan for an Epic-S with 48fps ability beyond 3K... you weren't paying attention. Oh hang on, you only joined Reduser in 2010. I guess I'm just not too sure why you feel offended that we ask what happened with the Epic-S.
Click to expand...

So...because I join in 2010 doesn't mean I haven't been following RED since 2008 and didn't start joining discussions until I became serious about getting one? Oh your right, sorry...I supposed you knew that.

Either way, my point was, I think the reason RED made Scarlet X with the specs it has because Epic-S's Specs were too close to the Epic-M or X for too cheap of a cheap price. So they made a compromise and crossed Scarlet and Epic-S and created Scarlet-X which I think was very wise...(I am not saying that's what happened, but it would make sense because...thats what I thought when I first saw the Epic-S specs and price)

Dont get me wrong, 5k 60fps for 12k...would have been sweet...but...yeah...I know many lower budget productions would be happy with just 60fps at 5k then 120fps at 5k...dropping the Epic-X and M's value down. So I totally understand if that was REDs reason for switching things up.



P.S. I pay close attention... :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top