Confirmation of Epic-S dropped?

[Scott Auerbach]

I've just gotten word (only because I asked someone to check) from REDucation camp that there will be no Epic-S. As someone who's been waiting for it for a couple of years --and who reads every one of Jim's Recon posts-- I'm a bit baffled and disappointed by this. As recently as within the last 90 days, Jim had posted that there were no changes to the stages (Stage 4 being "Buy Epic S35 [later renamed Epic-S] brain").... and (in regard to placing a Stage 4 order before the January 1 price increase,) "Those who are paying attention will not be hurt."

Well, I've been paying close attention to every post I could find by RED employees (as opposed to rumor and speculation), and I've just conducted an hours-long search of the forum, and I see no formal announcement of Epic-S being dropped. Yet that's the answer RED provided earlier today when asked.

I know the "subject to change" mantra, but one does expect some acknowledgment, given the thousands of people waiting for an Epic-S, that it changed all the way to oblivion.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

Meanwhile we have a ton of people who were disappointed that the 2/3" Scarlet they wanted was replaced by what they view as an 'Epic-S'

 

[Colin Sheldon]

I've just gotten word (only because I asked someone to check) from REDucation camp that there will be no Epic-S. As someone who's been waiting for it for a couple of years --and who reads every one of Jim's Recon posts-- I'm a bit baffled and disappointed by this. As recently as within the last 90 days, Jim had posted that there were no changes to the stages (Stage 4 being "Buy Epic S35 [later renamed Epic-S] brain").... and (in regard to placing a Stage 4 order before the January 1 price increase,) "Those who are paying attention will not be hurt."

Well, I've been paying close attention to every post I could find by RED employees (as opposed to rumor and speculation), and I've just conducted an hours-long search of the forum, and I see no formal announcement of Epic-S being dropped. Yet that's the answer RED provided earlier today when asked.

I know the "subject to change" mantra, but one does expect some acknowledgment, given the thousands of people waiting for an Epic-S, that it changed all the way to oblivion.

IMHO scarlet x replaced the epic-s

If you need a full powered system get an epic x. If you don't mind some compromises get the scarlet x.

 

[Jannard]

EPIC-S is Scarlet-X. Less than $10K for the brain. I thought that was obvious.

What would EPIC-S possibly have that Scarlet-X doesn't?

Jim

 

[Gunleik Groven]

A 14k pricetag, as you were speculating earlier on...

 

[Benoît-Joan Clariana-Roig]

Meanwhile we have a ton of people who were disappointed that the 2/3" Scarlet they wanted was replaced by what they view as an 'Epic-S'

I second that.

I'm glad that Jim said that Scarlet-X is the Epic-S. Be happy Scott. At least, you can get a S35 MX cam if you want to.

But for now, there's no hope for an 2/3", EFP REDcam. :'(


And what about a RED RECORDER, that could record on REDCODE on any cam ? Jiiiiiiiiim !!!

 

[Paul Ellington]

EPIC-S is Scarlet-X. Less than $10K for the brain. I thought that was obvious.

What would EPIC-S possibly have that Scarlet-X doesn't?

Jim

It's beyond generous, and far from anything sony or anyone else is offering - the F3 is no comparison. I will do tests side by side with PL mounts but compared to Scarlet and Epic, the F3 is not great for a bunch of reason which I will outline when I post my grabs and compare.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

It's beyond generous, and far from anything sony or anyone else is offering - the F3 is no comparison. I will do tests side by side with PL mounts but compared to Scarlet and Epic, the F3 is not great for a bunch of reason which I will outline when I post my grabs and compare.

Hope to get some time with the F3 + Epic at the same time, too - before I get to play with the F65..

G

 

[Paul Ellington]

Hope to get some time with the F3 + Epic at the same time, too - before I get to play with the F65..

G

The F3 is is not the right camera for me, in my opinion. Weird colors, no clean focus pulls, maybe with better glass it would be better but I would only use it for interviews. Even then, ... I have other options now.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I won't bite!

But I do prefer the Epic/Scarlet and R1.

I spends time with a lot of cameras...

Let's say that there are a lot of non-cinema uses for non-cinema cameras...

 

[Jason Comparetto]

I'm kind of glad they went with a different naming scheme rather than Epic-X, Epic-S, Epic-S35. Clients can get very confused very easily by these small details which translate to 4x the price tag.

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

I was soooo keen to get hold of the Scarlet 2/3" fixed. If it gets resurrected I'd still buy it. But you know what? I think I'm actually better off with Scarlet-X, on reflection. Equipped with a decent Canon zoom, it's not that much bigger or more expensive than Scarlet Fixed, and except for the 8x zoom glass, much more capable.

I'm doing a deal with the owner (original owner) of 'my' Red One such that, at the end of the day, when they return it for Stage 3 upgrade, I'll hopefully end up with fractional ownership of their EPIC-X, and will have access to that when I need full EPIC capabilities.

In the meantime, I'll own my own Scarlet-X outright, it'll shoot most motion I need to shoot, AND it'll replace my D3 bodies; 5K is enough for almost all the stills work I do, all it needs is for RED to make the firmware more stills-friendly in terms of power mangement and things like auto-bracketing; get it to sit on sleep-mode standby all day, and wake it up from time to time and shoot 1000 stills, all on one REDvolt, and I'll be a happy stills guy who only needs to ever carry one camera - a RED camera! :thumbsup:

So although I regret the loss of Scarlet Fixed, and those on a real tight budget probably regret it (and the loss of Scarlet Cine of course) a lot more, I think Jim has provided me with a pretty damn good solution - more than I expected to pay, but considerably more than I could have expected for the price you're charging. Jim & co, I know you bang on about 4K minimum, and you're not wrong, but for me the big thing with Scarlet Fixed was not so much resolution as the ability to shoot RED RAW at a much lower price point; raw *matters* to me. 2/3" 3K raw HDRx is still a VERY attractive proposition. If you re-announce a 2/3" Fixed camera with the lens issues sorted out some way down the road a bit, I'd STILL buy it, no further questions asked.

Mike

 

[Scott Auerbach]

EPIC-S is Scarlet-X. Less than $10K for the brain. I thought that was obvious.

What would EPIC-S possibly have that Scarlet-X doesn't?

Jim

Thanks for the response.
Well, the specs presented for Epic-S (5k up to 72 fps, HDRx up to 30 fps) were quite a bit beyond what the Scarlet-X can provide, so it wasn't obvious to me. And I recall a fair amount of "hey...wait...if Scarlet isn't 2/3" any more, what does that mean for Epic-S?" chatter in the early days of November, but I never saw a clear response to that. Perhaps I missed it, but I've really been keeping an eye out.

There's a real donut hole between those two models for those of us in the high-end corporate & mid-tier advertising world... sigh....

 

[Marc Fisher]

Mike: I love my Epic, but I don't see it as a replacement for the D3 - ergonomically, or otherwise - very different beasts. I have been trying ditch the D3 for 2 years now - to consolidate my systens - but keep coming back to it. When light disappears, there is nothing to compete with a D3s and 1.4 glass. Ready in an instant, and a battery that lasts for ever.
I hope the 1Dx can compete, but I suspect the D4 will just raise the low noise bar further and force me to maintain a rudimentary Nikon set-up.
Marc

 

[Solomon Nero]

Scarlet-X and Epic-S are close in intended design. But the Epic-S was supposed to be motion at 5k with HDRX at 5k that is still at a motion frame rate. Scarlet only 4k 24fps is definitely different...

But...the Epic-S was supposed to be 12k+ for the body, plus all accessories...

Epic S would have been amazing for the price, but i feel it would have been too close to Epic-X or M. To me, the Scarlet-X is a fanatastic inbetween of what the Scarlet was, and the Epic-S was going to be.

 

[Nuka Wølk]

Remember. Scarlet-X is upgradeable. No one knows (other than RED perhaps) what we can expect in the near future. But I have a feeling that those who were looking forward to the former Epic-S, wont be disappointed

Btw. I just wish I could get the Scarlet-X as it is right now. It's a dream of a camera!

 

[Colin Hubick]

The F3 is a wonderful camera, we own one, and it is requested often by our commercial clients. Mainly for those projects that end up only on the web, and those that end up on the web are delivered at 1080p or 720p. Our F3's life is all about these types of jobs, while the Epic is reserved for projects that require what the Epic offers. Typically for us, that use is visual effects work, features, music videos. Two distinct tools, for two different types of jobs.

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

Thanks for the response.
Well, the specs presented for Epic-S (5k up to 72 fps, HDRx up to 30 fps) were quite a bit beyond what the Scarlet-X can provide, so it wasn't obvious to me. And I recall a fair amount of "hey...wait...if Scarlet isn't 2/3" any more, what does that mean for Epic-S?" chatter in the early days of November, but I never saw a clear response to that. Perhaps I missed it, but I've really been keeping an eye out.

There's a real donut hole between those two models for those of us in the high-end corporate & mid-tier advertising world... sigh....

The EPIC-S was expected to have about 1/2 the horsepower of the EPIC-X.
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread...S35)-update...&p=701804&viewfull=1#post701804

That would have been 5K - 60FPS or 30FPS HDRx. But that was one year ago and things changed. The EPIC-S body should have costed about $13K without the price increase. Add at least 20% and you would get about $16K - and again, that's just the body.

I think that the EPIC-S would have been to expensive for many AND I also think that it was way to close to the EPIC-X. The Scarlet-X replaces the Scarlet Fixed AND the EPIC-S.

I loved the idea of the EPIC-S but I also love the Scarlet's lower price. After all, maybe that was the best thing to do...

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

Epic S would have been amazing for the price, but i feel it would have been too close to Epic-X or M. To me, the Scarlet-X is a fanatastic inbetween of what the Scarlet was, and the Epic-S was going to be.

I agree...

 

[Andrew McCarrick]

The EPIC-S was expected to have about 1/2 the horsepower of the EPIC-X.
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread...S35)-update...&p=701804&viewfull=1#post701804

That would have been 5K - 60FPS or 30FPS HDRx. But that was one year ago and things changed. The EPIC-S body should have costed about $13K without the price increase. Add at least 20% and you would get about $16K - and again, that's just the body.

I think that the EPIC-S would have been to expensive for many AND I also think that it was way to close to the EPIC-X. The Scarlet-X replaces the Scarlet Fixed AND the EPIC-S.

I loved the idea of the EPIC-S but I also love the Scarlet's lower price. After all, maybe that was the best thing to do...

The Epic-S would have been a perfect Red One replacement. Basically put the Red One into the Epic form factor, with modules. I think it would have fit nicely in between the Epic-X and Scarlet-X.