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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Compulsory Whining, Pricing FUD, Sky is falling...

I've acted frugally in every major purchase I've made, carefully balancing price and opportunity cost against features and values. As a result, I have some money to spend on Scarlet. I've been waiting and saving long enough and beautiful events have passed into memory or are preserved only in HDV format. Choose 2 of 3: Quality, Price, Schedule. I'll take Quality and Schedule at this point.
 
(From the "Incredible" thread:)

Sichlau said:
I'm sorry Jim but every time you say/write something like that I really, really want to believe you. And I do, at least I try to. But in the back of my head I have Jim Cameron reassureing that his new film will have CGI you'd never imagine... you probably know the rest.

Anyway. I hope you're right. Or that this is some sort of sales technic. Well, good Carma to you and the rest of the gang for making a dream, that hopefully will come true.
Click to expand...

SHUUUuuut UP!

That is all.

-sc
 
Stephen Grubb said:
Ethan, I take it you're in the market for a s35 then?
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Actually I'm in the fixed market, I'm just trying to make reasoned arguments based on my observations.

The s35 market is the real entry level market to the Scarlet system in my opinion since that group is fully expecting to drop some money on modules and additional goodies for their cameras. If the price goes up for them, they'll just adjust their budget and either shell out more cash for the stuff they were planning on getting or drop an add-on or two to afford a working rig without a couple bells and whistles. They're better positioned to absorb a price hike (if there is one).

The fixed lens crowd doesn't have the resources to lay out that kind of cash and therefore any price increase will greatly impact their ability to buy a camera. They never really had much of a budget to begin with.
 
I somewhat agree, Ethan. However, there's a huge market for the fixed lens model for ENG / EFP use. I know several companies looking to pick up a number of the fixed lens Scarlets for a variety of uses.

That said, a huge portion of the market for the 2/3" models are the hobbyists and independent, aspiring filmmakers. Like you say, they don't have much budget to begin with. The last pricing updates we had back in December or about then listed the 2/3" fixed lens as having a ready-to-shoot kit for about $3750. That would be an excellent price point and I know a lot of people are counting on something to be useable for about that price.

I think it's safe to say that pricing will indeed change. But at this point, there is no indication of whether the price is going up or going down. All the panic and despair is not warranted. I'm almost willing to bet that with the current economic situation, RED slowing down their development schedule a few months back and all the anticipation, that there's a real possibility the price could go down.

Hopefully we find out soon. But I think it's all a bit too early to panic over the 2/3" Scarlet models. The EPIC-X, and EPIC / Scarlet S35 are coming out first anyway. Unless that has somehow changed too.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I somewhat agree, Ethan. However, there's a huge market for the fixed lens model for ENG / EFP use. I know several companies looking to pick up a number of the fixed lens Scarlets for a variety of uses.

That said, a huge portion of the market for the 2/3" models are the hobbyists and independent, aspiring filmmakers. Like you say, they don't have much budget to begin with. The last pricing updates we had back in December or about then listed the 2/3" fixed lens as having a ready-to-shoot kit for about $3750. That would be an excellent price point and I know a lot of people are counting on something to be useable for about that price.

I think it's safe to say that pricing will indeed change. But at this point, there is no indication of whether the price is going up or going down. All the panic and despair is not warranted. I'm almost willing to bet that with the current economic situation, RED slowing down their development schedule a few months back and all the anticipation, that there's a real possibility the price could go down.

Hopefully we find out soon. But I think it's all a bit too early to panic over the 2/3" Scarlet models. The EPIC-X, and EPIC / Scarlet S35 are coming out first anyway. Unless that has somehow changed too.
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Thank you.

And a certain amount of concern is kind of human. Boys and their toys. So can we close this?
:closed2ur0:
 
Jon Bingham said:
There should be a forum for bitching and speculating. If you don't like it, start your own camera company.
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Haha... they should be glad it's only a forum. I sit on an IRC channel with the developers for some software I use extensively and they get to hear my whining in real time. :D
 
sunglasses that shoot in 5k???? :blush:
 
Sorry to change the subject a bit but staying on course with the new cameras if I am planning some run and gun on the streets using only streetlights for night shooting will I only need the Scarlet or am I looking at the Epic for greater latitude and minimal noise? I heard some people had problems with the Red One (that has probably been partially or even fully resolved by now with the software upgrade) for night shoots.

This is for a possible film out AND 4K digital projection.
 
J. P. Sendall said:
if I am planning some run and gun on the streets using only streetlights for night shooting will I only need the Scarlet or am I looking at the Epic for greater latitude and minimal noise?
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Both cameras use the Mysterium-X sensor, so you don't get better latitude/noise performance from Epic over Scarlet. The biggest main difference between the two cameras are the available framerate options.

There is a more advanced sensor they're calling "Monstro" that will offer better image quality characteristics, but that won't come out for awhile. It is also available for both Scarlet and Epic brains.
 
Popping my cherry

Popping my cherry

Jannard said:
Steven... there is a point of truth to your last comment. As soon as someone says we are "screwing them", I have to think that something is very wrong with our approach. "Screwing" anyone is the furthest thing away from our intent. If too many people don't like the program, we definitely need to re-think the presentation. Clam up came to mind.

There was no marketing plan when we started this company. It evolved. Posting and listening just happened. It seemed to make sense and seemed to work. But as "everything changes"... so can our presentation. Just need to know whether to talk out loud during the process with people realizing the need to change and adapt as things move along, or do it the old fashion way. You all get to choose.

Jim
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DO NOT CLAM UP! Your approach is refreshing and useful in this day and age. The ones that complain Jim are talking out of their arses and shouldn't be heard.

IMHO... of course.

Keep the dream machine rolling! Loving this sweet sexy machine.

With Great Respect,
Adion
 
Lawrence Bansbach said:
Interesting, but irrelevant. I'm measuring against what Red originally specced. Microsoft (as well as others) has crushed competition by overpromising. Sadly, it invariably underdelivers.
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I'm not really sure why you consider it irrelevant. If anything, the comparison to the original hype is largely irrelevant (unless you're actually suggesting that Red is using hype as some sort of below the belt technique to, er, "crush" their competition). How the final Scarlet compares to what's out there now is going to be the only thing that really matters. Three years from now, hardly anyone will even remember what the original Scarlet idea was, but they will remember what Red managed to launch.

Lawrence Bansbach said:
It was never pocketable. But if you're saying Red has abandoned a relatively full-featured, out-of-the-box complete low-end model, I hope that remains to be seen.
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Wasn't the idea for the original Scarlet that it would be small enough to fit in your pocket? I remember there being a lot of guesswork around what sort of pocket they had in mind.

Anyways, I think my biggest gripe with your complaints here (and I'm not really a fan of some of the sycophancy here either) is that you're not really suggesting a good alternative. Should Red simply have avoided telling us about what they were working on? It doesn't seem like anybody wins in that case. I mean, I suppose they could have come on a little less strong with their proposed Scarlet (i.e., "here's what we're thinking…" versus "this is what we're going to do, but this is all subject to change"), but at that point I really see it as splitting hairs.

You speak about this as though Red has a pattern of disappointment and has only been winning customers through hype rather than delivering real, valuable products. On the contrary, all the other companies go through the same process of working things out and sometimes taking things back to the drawing board (especially when they're not just pushing out incremental improvements, which is what they do most of the time)—Red's only significant difference here is that they've included us in the process.

I'm eager to see what Red *does* come out with, and if Scarlet is bumped up further in price, then I'm curious whether Red ever does plan to serve the under $3k market (the potential volume of demand in the $500-3k market must be enormous, especially given the current options).
 
Jannard said:
Steven... there is a point of truth to your last comment. As soon as someone says we are "screwing them", I have to think that something is very wrong with our approach. "Screwing" anyone is the furthest thing away from our intent. If too many people don't like the program, we definitely need to re-think the presentation. Clam up came to mind.

There was no marketing plan when we started this company. It evolved. Posting and listening just happened. It seemed to make sense and seemed to work. But as "everything changes"... so can our presentation. Just need to know whether to talk out loud during the process with people realizing the need to change and adapt as things move along, or do it the old fashion way. You all get to choose.

Jim
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Jim...

People only whine because you make things look easy.

:001_cool:
 
Jannard said:
Steven... there is a point of truth to your last comment. As soon as someone says we are "screwing them", I have to think that something is very wrong with our approach. "Screwing" anyone is the furthest thing away from our intent. If too many people don't like the program, we definitely need to re-think the presentation. Clam up came to mind.

There was no marketing plan when we started this company. It evolved. Posting and listening just happened. It seemed to make sense and seemed to work. But as "everything changes"... so can our presentation. Just need to know whether to talk out loud during the process with people realizing the need to change and adapt as things move along, or do it the old fashion way. You all get to choose.

Jim
Click to expand...


This has been a development in the making since the first cameras were delivered. Going from a couple of hundred geeky dreamers, to a some 1000s users + people weighing in on their multitude of camera options and unfamiliarity with the constant changing and concept of being a paying beta-tester - has created a different mood on the board.

it is easy to miss the "good old days"

On the other hand, it's even easier just to grab my cam and go and shoot some...


Cheers and thanks!
 
I love the openness and interaction with RED team members including RED LEADER on these forums. Don't stop please!
 
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