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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Compulsory Whining, Pricing FUD, Sky is falling...

Jannard said:
You certainly can speculate all you want... and if we miss your window of "good"... there are other options out there for you. We are trying to deliver an important product at a price that can be afforded by many (not all) and not lose money in the process. You may want to reserve judgment until more info comes out... but it is your call.

After posts like these, I have to admit 2nd guessing whether we should have ever kept an open dialog. "Subject to change" only seems to be allowed if things get better. Human nature I guess.

Best.

Jim
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Jim, as a business entrepreneur/guru you've learned to ignore the naysayers. Just keep going for a bit longer. Everyone here is wound up and it's your own damn fault teasing us so. :p We trust you and A business is a business, we get that.

-J.A.Brown
 
Jannard said:
You may want to reserve judgment until more info comes out... but it is your call.
. . .
"Subject to change" only seems to be allowed if things get better. Human nature I guess.
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These two statements seem to be at odds with one another. Red made the announcements. First, 3K (3.072 x 1,728) for less than 3K than $3K, then a 25% price increase but a 58% decrease in maximum data rate, and possibly only one CF slot, smaller (2.5-inch) LCD, and no HD-SDI in the basic package. If I reserve judgment until more info comes out, will I learn that fixed Scarlet's maximum data rate will be at least 100 MBps, the basic kit's price will cost $3,750 or less and its specs will exceed those of the original Scarlet? My issue is that the known negative changes seem to be skewed toward the lower end. I base my expectations on what you originally announced. "Subject to change" can be negative if you can accept that judgments, no matter how reserved, will be based on previous announcements. The rule of thumb is under-promise and over-deliver, not the reverse. How about you boost the price of the s35 and FF Scarlets and Epics $1,000 and reduce the price of the 2/3-inch Scarlets? I reserve judgment -- thrill me.
 
Jannard said:
You certainly can speculate all you want... and if we miss your window of "good"... there are other options out there for you. We are trying to deliver an important product at a price that can be afforded by many (not all) and not lose money in the process. You may want to reserve judgment until more info comes out... but it is your call.

After posts like these, I have to admit 2nd guessing whether we should have ever kept an open dialog. "Subject to change" only seems to be allowed if things get better. Human nature I guess.

Best.

Jim
Click to expand...

Why did people have to ruin the good ol' days? :frown2:
 
Jannard said:
After posts like these, I have to admit 2nd guessing whether we should have ever kept an open dialog. "Subject to change" only seems to be allowed if things get better. Human nature I guess.

Best.

Jim
Click to expand...

Or you can use your right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude. :badputer:
 
Interesting discussion. Personally, I am very confident that Scarlet will be a good buy for what you get. That is different from saying I'll be able to afford it, though. I am hopeful however.

I don't exactly have a hard budget limit, nor could I afford anything right now. However, one of the biggest things on my mind is what will be the best system for someone doing wildlife/conservation documentaries when I do have the money? Currently, there is nothing that I'd be 100% happy with at a price point reasonable to me. Scarlet might change that and is the most concrete expectation at this point in time. (There are other rumors of things that would do what I want.)

100% happy to me equates to 1920x1080 or higher, a codec that doesn't worry me about clients being unhappy with the results, lenses sufficient for wildlife work yet a wide end good for interviews etc., fairly easy workflow for editing the footage.

On the budget side, I doubt I could swing much more than $10000.

Anyhow, I just hope most hold back on the flipping about cost, etc. Until we know something concrete.
 
Ian B. Johnson said:
I've found this dichotomy very interesting over the past year. Many of the users here follow Steve's sentiments, while others see Lawrence's side. I'd like to see it talked over in a polite and civilized discussion... see where it goes.
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What Gibby failed to mention was while it's true RED usually underpromises and overdelivers--with a few exceptions. Two things also usually happen: the price increases and the release date gets pushed back. Whether the price increase is worth it is usually the subject of debate. Time will tell, but the dichotomy is that usually people are satisfied, even if the price is higher.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
What Gibby failed to mention was while it's true RED usually underpromises and overdelivers--with a few exceptions. Two things also usually happen: the price increases and the release date gets pushed back. Whether the price increase is worth it is usually the subject of debate. Time will tell.
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But the beauty of the story is...the final outcome brings a lot cheaper price tag on a lot better camera than what the others have to offer (whether or not they reach their price point they tried to accomplish in the first place).
 
Joseph Hutson said:
But the beauty of the story is...the final outcome brings a lot cheaper price tag on a lot better camera than what the others have to offer (whether or not they reach their price point they tried to accomplish in the first place).
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I agree. Even if it's $8000 for the fixed scarlet brain it will be a bargain. Anything less than that is a total steal. :auto:
 
And even if you don't want to take your hard earned cash to Red, now you have other options -that wouldn't have been there yet it if wasn't for Red-.
 
anywayyyyss.... back to more productive discussion
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
What Gibby failed to mention was while it's true RED usually underpromises and overdelivers--with a few exceptions. Two things also usually happen: the price increases and the release date gets pushed back. Whether the price increase is worth it is usually the subject of debate. Time will tell, but the dichotomy is that usually people are satisfied, even if the price is higher.
Click to expand...

I think people have selective memories... EPIC S35 started out around $40K (I forgot the actual number). I think people have forgotten that.

Jim
 
FF Scarlet also dropped around 2-3 grand if memory serves when the dec 3rd announcement came.
 
Lawrence Bansbach said:
My issue is that the known negative changes seem to be skewed toward the lower end.
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I'm not quite sure what this sentence means, but I think the real problem is that you're measuring (your idea of) the final product against its hype and completely ignoring how it compares to everything else out there that is in the same price range and/or form factor. I mean, if a guy says he's going to give you a hundred bucks for no reason, and then when he reaches into his pocket only gives you fifty, you're going to start claiming you've been screwed?

You're also ignoring what has changed for the positive here—perhaps because you only care about certain things, and so they don't apply, even if the rest of the cinematographers and wannabe cinematographers would've been happy to pay double for them. We're getting:
* Option re: interchangeable vs. fixed, with a set of lenses to go with.
* The ability to add a ton of battery life, a ton of storage, a ton of viewing and I/O options, or keep the thing completely lightweight, all while knowing that these additional components will be usable should I decide to upgrade from 2/3" to S35, Scarlet to Epic, or Scarlet to Scarlet II.
* The ability to shoot to full-sensor 1080p.

Not sure what else has been added since ConceptScarlet rev.1.

While it'd be great to see a fully-functioning Scarlet kit at $3k or lower, you're forgetting the main point here: This blows away my options at anything less than $17.5k.

Don't get me wrong—a tiny little pocketable $3k 3K camera would have been great, but Red's since figured out that they have even more important things to do.

And "screwed"? Screwed is buying a 5Dii for video and then finding out what it's really capable of.
 
Did I miss something? I don't see any concrete posts about Scarlet's price going up...
 
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