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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Color balancing Scarlet-X and Canon C300

Sanjin, in my experience after recently testing all of the IRND options out there I believe you'll get better results out of camera using the Formatt Hot Mirror/ND filters when matching ND against pretty much any other camera out there.
 
Phil Holland said:
Sanjin, in my experience after recently testing all of the IRND options out there I believe you'll get better results out of camera using the Formatt Hot Mirror/ND filters when matching ND against pretty much any other camera out there.
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Phil,

A part of this test is also to try out with the 85N9 filter that is actually an old cinematographer trick the same like with using tungsten balanced film stock to shoot in a bright sunny daylight

and to avoid clogging so many NDs when is very difficult to get a right exposure @ T/5.6-8 aperture range and also to avoid color shift towards a greenish/turquoise in blue sky, etc...
 
I thought that the IR shift was all but eliminated with the MX upgrade? Or would it not matter so much with an .3 or .6, but more evident in an .9 or 1.2?
 
TonySegreto said:
I thought that the IR shift was all but eliminated with the MX upgrade? Or would it not matter so much with an .3 or .6, but more evident in an .9 or 1.2?
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No matter which camera you are shooting film or digital, still or cinema but adding any filter on your acquisition system can shift the colors.
 
Once you're going past .9 on ND filtration it gets really visible. I shoot with deep filtration 1.2 and 1.8 pretty often. In my experience with the C300 and how it cuts light with it's built in ND, the Formatt Hot Mirror/ND filters "neutralize" the best on Epic/Scarlet.
 
Phil Holland said:
Once you're going past .9 on ND filtration it gets really visible. I shoot with deep filtration 1.2 and 1.8 pretty often. In my experience with the C300 and how it cuts light with it's built in ND, the Formatt Hot Mirror/ND filters "neutralize" the best on Epic/Scarlet.
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Phil,

You are right with the Formatt Hot Mirror/ND filters (also I have it) and I'll try to show some examples that using both above described options at one of the next tests here...

Actually I would need more blue sky like in California or here across the Atlantic something like in Canary Islands or Morocco in March...but must stay in Vienna at the moment...

Stay tuned.
 
Testing these cams is a great idea, and you have matched the c300 very well with colour but the thing that bothers me is (like someone else already said) it should be the other way around! Try pushing the 8bit c300 out of what was baked in and you'll start seeing a lot of problems, true? Pushing MX to match other cams is when you begin to realize the power of RAW and the MX's range. With DSLR and c300 the image looks amazing untouched from camera, but try and shift that you run in to trouble. I'd like to see how well the c300 can be pushed....not to bad mouth it, but just to make it clear what technological differences there are between the two cameras.
 
Matthew Scott said:
Testing these cams is a great idea, and you have matched the c300 very well with colour but the thing that bothers me is (like someone else already said) it should be the other way around! Try pushing the 8bit c300 out of what was baked in and you'll start seeing a lot of problems, true? Pushing MX to match other cams is when you begin to realize the power of RAW and the MX's range. With DSLR and c300 the image looks amazing untouched from camera, but try and shift that you run in to trouble. I'd like to see how well the c300 can be pushed....not to bad mouth it, but just to make it clear what technological differences there are between the two cameras.
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Matthew,

As I owe both cameras for me is very important to know many things in advance and to avoid mostly a kind of bad things

with those two incredible cameras in the case when I'll be using them both in any sort of multi-cam shooting situation.

Also right now I set a rig with both cameras on one tripod that would be much easier to do side by side tests.
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
This probably going to be a long tread.

Main goal of the tread is bringing the Scarlet-X extremely close to a standard look of C300.

It's the first test of color balancing between those two cameras and more other test examples will come soon after this one.

So I just started with a very simple test to try out matching and balancing color between those two cameras using PS5.

Next tests will include grades in DaVinci Resolve, After Effects, FCP7, FCPX, etc.

Both cameras have installed the latest firmware updates, SCARLET Build v3.0.0 Firmware, .

scarlet-x_match-test_01.jpg

Shot on Scarlet-X with Leica-R Summilux 50mm f/1.4 @ f/5.6, WB: 5000K, EI 800 (ISO), no filters, matching CC RCX + PS5.

canon-c300_match-test_01.jpg

Shot on Canon C300 with Leica-R Summilux 50mm f/1.4 @ f/5.6, WB: 5000K, EI 800 (ISO), no filters, no any CC.

scarlet-x_match-test_02.jpg

Shot on Scarlet-X with Leica-R Varion Elmarit 28-90mm f/2.8-4 @ 35mm, f/5.6, WB: 3400K, EI 320 (ISO), Filters: 85N9 Tiffen, Circ-Pola Formatt, matching CC RCX + PS5.

canon-c300_match-test_02.jpg

Shot on Canon C300 with Leica-R Vario Elmarit 21-35mm f/3.5-4 @ 35mm, f/5.6, WB: K5000, EI 320 (ISO), Filters: ND4 in camera rotary ND filter, Circ-Pola Tiffen, no any CC.

scarlet-x_c300_sidebyside_02.jpg

BTS: Color balancing test between Scarlet-X and Canon C300.

scarlet-x_c300_sidebyside_01.jpg

BTS: Color balancing test between Scarlet-X and Canon C300.

The next test is coming soon.

Stay tuned.
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If you want to be scientific about it I can give you a 3DLUT that will very much Crank one of the charts to look exactly like the other one... on every instance. The only difference then would be compression, original latitude, resolution etc. But the colors would very much be identical across the range.

We got our own grade match tool to do this. We use it when people want to grade in PSD, then we can extract the grade so it's possible to render in Resolve or an other program that takes 3DLUT's.

To see what I mean send me a PSD file with grading and I send you a 3DLUT that does the exact same thing...
 
Björn Benckert said:
If you want to be scientific about it I can give you a 3DLUT that will very much Crank one of the charts to look exactly like the other one... on every instance. The only difference then would be compression, original latitude, resolution etc. But the colors would very much be identical across the range.

We got our own grade match tool to do this. We use it when people want to grade in PSD, then we can extract the grade so it's possible to render in Resolve or an other program that takes 3DLUT's.

To see what I mean send me a PSD file with grading and I send you a 3DLUT that does the exact same thing...
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Björn,

Thanks for your offer that sounds pretty good!!!

With the next test for sure I'll contact you by PM or email...
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
Out of the box the camera (C300) is a little over sharpened,
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Gotta turn off the sharpening to see what's really going on with the C300. That may impact moire' results. It does make the C300 "pop" in side by side tests. You may want to try a few tests with no filters and the exact same lens so you can know for sure what each sensor is doing.

For people who need a fast turnaround and a minimal amount of gear I can see why the C300 makes sense.

Thanks for all the tests!
 
Why were these tests made with such a week Picture Profile from the C300 such as the EOS Standard? I mean, how constructive is it to judge a Raw file from a heavily backed file?

Why didn't you use Canon Log profile? I'm sure that none of that aliasing happens when in C-Log. In fact, for you to choose EOS Standard you had to dig a lot deeper into the menus than just selecting Cinema Lock Profile which is at the top of the main menu...

Strange comparison of each camera's image, it only proved that you're probably in denial by what the C300 can give you, otherwise you would have shot C-Log, as that's the reason this camera costs £13000.

But thanks anyway...
 
LOL Really? Did you miss the fact that he owns and likes both cameras? C-Log MIGHT reduce some of the bloom on the water test (doubtful), but absolutely would NOT change the results of the moire test. I have read plenty of "fan boy" comparative tests on countless forums, I would not call this one of them, the pictures speak for themselves. Is there a reason why you seem so "vested" in the Canon image? People need to remember to take emotion out of camera reviews, I own a Scarlet-X and an AF100 (among other cams), but would never say either one is "better" than the other, its why I own both.

Rant finished...
 
Andrew Allsbury said:
LOL Really? Did you miss the fact that he owns and likes both cameras? C-Log MIGHT reduce some of the bloom on the water test (doubtful), but absolutely would NOT change the results of the moire test. I have read plenty of "fan boy" comparative tests on countless forums, I would not call this one of them, the pictures speak for themselves. Is there a reason why you seem so "vested" in the Canon image? People need to remember to take emotion out of camera reviews, I own a Scarlet-X and an AF100 (among other cams), but would never say either one is "better" than the other, its why I own both.

Rant finished...
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Andrew, this is not a rant from me at all. Its just that I have shot with the C300 on various high contrast scenes and nothing even near as that ever came up, never. I don't want to rant, but I really like the C300 image, more than the MX image from the Scarlet.
 
There is nothing wrong with digging the image from the C300, I personally love it under some circumstances. My problem with your prior post was the accusatory statment about Sanjin being in denial regarding the C300. Posts like this are highly important to most users and take a lot of work on the poster's end, and personal attacks are not the thanks we should be giving people like Sanjin.

As far as whether or not C-Log would make a difference, maybe Sanjin would be willing to re-shoot with that setting. However, from past experience with lots of different cameras, I do not think it will cure these issues. Though I would love to be proven wrong, as I think the C300 makes gorgeous images.
 
This is why some of you guys give Red a bad rep. Here are some more honest C300 tests, including the waves, moire and extensive grading.

 
Seems quite a few people are experiencing the C300's color fringing issue and it is not limited to green fringing, not surprising given the simplistic binned debayer algorithm Canon mentions it uses. As with any camera you just need to know what to look for and what to avoid and I'm sure some people will never have an issue with it, just like the somewhat more prevalent moire issues on Canon DSLRs.

http://www.pauljoy.com/2012/03/first-day-with-the-canon-eos-c300/
http://www.xdcam-user.com/2012/03/c300-color-fringing-update/
 
Noah Yuan-Vogel said:
Seems quite a few people are experiencing the C300's color fringing issue and it is not limited to green fringing, not surprising given the simplistic binned debayer algorithm Canon mentions it uses. As with any camera you just need to know what to look for and what to avoid and I'm sure some people will never have an issue with it, just like the somewhat more prevalent moire issues on Canon DSLRs.

http://www.pauljoy.com/2012/03/first-day-with-the-canon-eos-c300/
http://www.xdcam-user.com/2012/03/c300-color-fringing-update/
Click to expand...

Paul Joy has stated on another forum that he unintentionally shot 50i, instead of 25p, hence the color fringing, it's interlaced... However, you see none of that on the tests above.
 
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