Cold shooting...

[Rick Darge]

For such a cold topic, this is a hot thread!

Yea I'm awesome

 

[Shawn Nelson]

As an engineer, I don't feel it's acceptable for a product such as this to not boot in temps below freezing. What is causing this? I know there's a temp that LCDs freeze at, but anything above that should be fine. At my day job, we do extensive environmental chamber testing in sub-freezing temperatures on items that cost less than half what Red is.

Back at NAB, I asked one of the Red employees if the Red had yet done environmental testing. His answer indicated to me they hadn't and had no plans to. Well, now this pops up.

 

[Steve Freebairn]

I'm not saying this shouldn't be fixed, but for all those really experienced people out there (I'm not claiming I am, but one day hope to be)

1. -40 Celsius is really really cold, would you really take an f900 without a cover or anything to protect it from wind or water in that temperature? I'd imagine that the camera would be either covered in ice or dripping wet. I know there are places where it is just cold and very dry, but even then, I'd imagine you'd have an Artic bag.

2. From what I've read and heard, it sounds like the f900 and others put off tons of heat and have more issues on the other end of the spectrum, the 110+ F temps. Would a device less than an inch thick that essentially became like a second camera bottom, really put that much of a cramp in your style?


I'm thinking of something that is shaped just like the current base of the camera that is bolted on and then provides additional warming.

 

[ChrisLyon]

I think it should be fixed, but designing something would be easier, by far. If this bar can keep condensation off of CCTV lenses, it should be warm enough to jump start the Red, right?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=37665&doy=search

Or hell, a modified Domino's heat wave bag could work.

 

[jbeale]

I heard of a red that shut down and had problems due to mildly cool weather last month on a commercial in the SF-bay area.

Surprising and disappointing news. Was cold confirmed to be the issue in this case? So far this season the SF bay area has barely reached 0 C at the coldest (eg. 5 am, at least near sea level, probably colder in the hills). I believe that would be the warmest "cold problem" yet reported. Can there be other factors in play? Confusing, when Hubickc reporting hours-long operation with an unheated cover at -20 C http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=120789#post120789

I think everyone wants the camera to work reliably and conveniently. If there is a defined "good" temp range that is convenient to provide (eg. a simple cover outdoors for weather cold enough to need gloves) I'd think many people could work with that. Without having any actual numbers to go on, this kind of report is obviously a worry. It's just hard to get a good understanding of the situation from the few and very different reports we've heard so far.

 

[Brook Willard]

I'd wait for confirmation on that one. If it's one of the two shoots I'm thinking of, cold wasn't the problem in either case.

 

[Jannard]

We found something that should dramatically improve booting and shooting in the cold. We are always working to fix issues that come up, no matter what the competitive landscape looks like.

We'll keep you posted on the progress.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

We found something that should dramatically improve booting and shooting in the cold. We are always working to fix issues that come up, no matter what the competitive landscape looks like.

We'll keep you posted on the progress.

Fantastic! Herein lies the strength to Red, Kaizen, constant improvement

 

[Brook Willard]

We found something that should dramatically improve booting and shooting in the cold.

?

 

[ChrisLyon]

damn... right as I was finishing my mockup too....







This, of course, would have been a powered heat system much like that of a pizza delivery bag. But, I suppose the Red team is hot on the trail.

 

[Rick Darge]

That's awesome Chris

 

[Shawn Nelson]

ah Chris, I like it! hmm, could you make covers for the ports? If you expanded it slightly it could be a base-functionality rain droplet/dirt protection device.

 

[Chris Parker]

Wow, how my emotions swung over the course of reading this WHOLE thread at once for the first time.

From Jim's surprising 'deal with it...' opening to his familiar 'we got your back...' closing, and everything in between.

My thoughts. It is totally lame IF RED did not work well at a paltry -5 C. I mean, honestly. Sure, other cameras are rated at 0C, but ALL of them work fine at up to -15 (an average day in Canada for 4 months of the year). Okay, so if it didn't work at -30C I would understand, but IF the case is, piss poor functionality at -5C, lame.

BUT, find a fix. Sounds like Jim et. all are already onto something. Great suggestions such as an internal temp. gauge are a great solution. Pair that with a custom-made heated barney, and maybe a half-decent camera assistant would be able to keep it running no matter the temp (unless he is busy with his Bounty paper towels).

And EVEN if the camera didn't work in the cold, it would not make it 'un-rentable'. Just un-rentable for outdoor winter shoots. Would still be totally fine in 80% of the countries in the world, and even in Canada, would be fine for f/x shoots in studios, or for 8 months of the year. But it would still be lame.

Which is why I hope out of this giant problem comes a great solution, either by RED themselves (sounds like it is on it's way) or from someone within the community. That's why this place is great.

Bottom line, us Canadians can't even win a Stanley Cup anymore, so at least give us a camera that works in the cold....

 

[ChrisLyon]

If you expanded it slightly it could be a base-functionality rain droplet/dirt protection device.

It could be. I shall set out to cut up some old messenger bags and whip out the sewing machine (yeah... i've got one... all those home made diffusers from back in the day and whatnot). This could easily be made for $50 with some items from hobby lobby. I should have some free time next week.

I'd need some help with dimensions, though. Maybe you could take some cloth and drape it over the red to get some dimensions for me to work with. You know, find the length the material will need to be to make an inverted cradle over the top of the camera? And then the length from the back of the camera to the front of the body minus the lens mount?

 

[Shawn Nelson]

It could be. I shall set out to cut up some old messenger bags and whip out the sewing machine (yeah... i've got one... all those home made diffusers from back in the day and whatnot). This could easily be made for $50 with some items from hobby lobby. I should have some free time next week.

I'd need some help with dimensions, though. Maybe you could take some cloth and drape it over the red to get some dimensions for me to work with. You know, find the length the material will need to be to make an inverted cradle over the top of the camera? And then the length from the back of the camera to the front of the body minus the lens mount?

I would, but my Red is out of the country right now!

 

[ChrisLyon]

I would, but my Red is out of the country right now!

Argh! No worries. Maybe someone else could oblige?

 

[Finner]

1. -40 Celsius is really really cold, would you really take an f900 without a cover or anything to protect it from wind or water in that temperature? I'd imagine that the camera would be either covered in ice or dripping wet.

At that temp wet or water is not a variable.

We found something that should dramatically improve booting and shooting in the cold. We are always working to fix issues that come up, no matter what the competitive landscape looks like.

We'll keep you posted on the progress.

Thats great news. A temp gauge to help a person regulate before problems would stll be really helpful though.

 

[Jannard]

This time we are guilty of not taking the complaint seriously enough (maybe we were just too busy trying to finish cameras?). We had tested to 0 C and figured we were the same as the rest. But after listening more closely (that's why this forum is here) we stopped what we were doing to take a good look. And we found that we can do better. Now remember that there is a limit as to how well we can do here, but we have some real room to improve. And we are on it.

In the meantime, someone suggested a camera bag worked for them... keeping the cold air away from the inlets also helps. But like I always say... "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs"

Jim

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

We found something that should dramatically improve booting and shooting in the cold. We are always working to fix issues that come up, no matter what the competitive landscape looks like.

We'll keep you posted on the progress.

Like I said, I may have done a lot of whining in these threads, but I have complete confidence in you, Jim, and the rest of the RED team.

Thank you! Can't wait to learn more.

 

[Finner]

Surprising and disappointing news. Was cold confirmed to be the issue in this case?

From what I know yes. All of a sudden your not so ready for red to ship out the camera as they are anymore. Funny how when it directly effects you it is all of a sudden an important issue.

As for warmest cold problem I don't think that one is the winner. I think if I remember right it was a German (some Europe country) that first reported problems. His were between 0 to +5c and the camera not booting up about 2 or 3 weeks ago.

I'd wait for confirmation on that one. If it's one of the two shoots I'm thinking of, cold wasn't the problem in either case.

Not your shoot Brook.