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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cold shooting...

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Turkish director Nuri Bilge Ceylan probably won't be shooting the RED if this heat/cold issue isn't addressed. This guy will surely pull the camera through the elements...





Both pictures are production shots from his movie "Iklimler" ("Climates" in english). Shot on the F900.

Not having the camera work at 0c is unacceptable if it requires more than a cover (here in denmark at least). -20c is something else...
 
Jesus, where have you red it won't work at 0C? It's getting bit hysterical here.
 
dalife check out the few threads that have been popping up

it's the end of the world as we know it
 
At the very beginning of the thread is stated the camera might have a problem with booting below -5C.
It's bit different to not working at all below zero.
And there is at least one report here it was already working -20C.
 
I'm sure I'll always have a vehicle to use while booting. It doesn't seem as much a disappointment to scripted productions as much as it might be to documentary shooters.
 
Even with a script...going to your car to boot is a bit strange huh?

Chris, it gets below 0c at least 2 times per year down here and I dont want to be climbing in my car on those two days :)
 
Slinnn said:
So what's different with Red ? There is no tape, so much less moving parts, CF doesn't seem to be the issue as it seems to work better in the cold (see other thread). So what's the component that doesn't like cold ?

Maybe someone could make a small and lightweight heating device that would plug into the air vents and blow hot air directly into the camera body to heat it up quickly ?

Come on, with all the clever guys working at Red, don't tell us you can't improve that...:weight_lift:
Click to expand...

I doubt it is about being clever, based on Jim’s response it's probably more about politics and cost.

Base camera price 17500.00 USAD, Red has already recalled 100 cameras and is currently updating all the new unreleased ones. At their expense (shipping included).

Some reservation holders are bitching that delivery is taking too long. Red has invested???? Dollars into the project and need to see some kind of a return even if it's a small one; they are a business after all. We all need Red to be profitable or they'll go away (that cant happen).

Now we have the cold boot / operation situation, what should they do? Stop the manufacturing of further cameras and recall the ones already shipped. Replace redesign affected parts, disappoint more reservation holders because shipping is taking too long and people can't wait any longer.

Or

Give the camera a temp rating, with a band-aid solution like use a blowtorch. Continue development and when they are ready to release version 2 of the Red One with new sensor and DSP they deal with temp issue and you can send version one of the camera back for an upgrade (at your cost).

I don't know shit this is just my imagination going crazy. Personally I can wait for my camera; I have no immediate plans for it until it's in my hands.

IMO the camera need to boot in cold weather without wrapping and heat pads, blowtorch and the innards of Chihuahuas (check "Empire Strikes Back).

And finally since broadcast is 1080 we need a 1080 solution, hell the Viper is only 1080. But I can wait for that too. But the cold boot... Way more important.


Respect to all who read this.



Method
 
digitalfx said:
Even with a script...going to your car to boot is a bit strange huh?

Chris, it gets below 0c at least 2 times per year down here and I dont want to be climbing in my car on those two days :)
Click to expand...

Booting a camera at all is a bit strange to me. :P

But yeah. It would be good to not have to. A solution will arise. Someone smart will create a non-obtrusive heat-pack carrying Red Pack that will simply velco onto the body near the fans pushing warm air into the camera.
 
Please explain further

Please explain further

kylemallory said:
I posted this a while ago...
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=89097#post89097

Most, if not all, commercial-grade digital cameras have this same limitation, including the F23, F900, Dalsa, D-20, HVX200, HLX1, etc, etc.
Click to expand...

Hi Kylemallory,

Your kidding right? I've worked many nights in the freezing cold with some of these cameras (F900, HVX200) and never had a boot problem or an operation issue.

Would you explain further? Did I misunderstand you?
 
 
Method said:
Now we have the cold boot / operation situation, what should they do? Stop the manufacturing of further cameras and recall the ones already shipped. [?]
Click to expand...

I know I don't have a vote. But if I did, I'd say ship 'em as-is and work out the temp. issues down the road a bit. My understanding from this forum is that every other (modern) pro cine gear works and cold starts at -35 C with no protection or warmup. Right now, reports are that at least some and maybe all Red cameras will not do that.

Ok, so you need to keep the Red within a more comfortable temp. range. That is a convenience factor if you live in a colder climate, it may rule out certain types of winter wilderness shooting, and it's definitely not a bragging point for Red vs. Almost Any Other Known Camera.

But meanwhile, there's a lot of non-frozen, approximately room-temperature shooting that is waiting on soon-to-be-shipped reds. ...been waiting for some time now.
 
Can someone take some pictures of the fan vents on the bottom of the red, please? I'm up for designing something tonight. Too bad there are no reds in tow for me to really try to get one to fit. I'll have to just whing it until I can get in kahutz with someone or ship it off once it's made.

Better yet, if the Red Team had any plastic models or something that one could use for designing such a heat pack....
 
jbeale said:
But meanwhile, there's a lot of non-frozen, approximately room-temperature shooting that is waiting on soon-to-be-shipped reds. ...been waiting for some time now.
Click to expand...

jbeale,

Your lucky, personally, I'd rather wait. No sense in bringing a camera up to the north and telling my client, "oh, wait a minute will ya I gotta get the camera out of the Chihuahua's ass. :pinch: :w00t:

Sorry I couldn't resist.

Method
 
jbeale said:
I know I don't have a vote. But if I did, I'd say ship 'em as-is and work out the temp. issues down the road a bit. My understanding from this forum is that every other (modern) pro cine gear works and cold starts at -35 C with no protection or warmup. Right now, reports are that at least some and maybe all Red cameras will not do that.

Ok, so you need to keep the Red within a more comfortable temp. range. That is a convenience factor if you live in a colder climate, it may rule out certain types of winter wilderness shooting, and it's definitely not a bragging point for Red vs. Almost Any Other Known Camera.

But meanwhile, there's a lot of non-frozen, approximately room-temperature shooting that is waiting on soon-to-be-shipped reds. ...been waiting for some time now.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't speak so fast. I see you are in the SF-bay area and I heard of a red that shut down and had problems due to mildly cool weather last month on a commercial in the SF-bay area.

Is that something you really want?
 
tlorenzo said:
Turkish director Nuri Bilge Ceylan probably won't be shooting the RED if this heat/cold issue isn't addressed. This guy will surely pull the camera through the elements...





Both pictures are production shots from his movie "Iklimler" ("Climates" in english). Shot on the F900.

Not having the camera work at 0c is unacceptable if it requires more than a cover (here in denmark at least). -20c is something else...
Click to expand...

That is one top notch camera crew you got there!

The first picture kills me. The AC is actually cleaning the lens with a bunch of bounty paper towels. If the paper towels did not clean the lens well I have some sandpaper he can borrow. Don't worry its 220 grit and brand name quality so it should be safe on the lens also!:) :)

I hate using the smiley faces but I could not help it with this one. That is one of the funniest things I have seen in a while.
 
I can't imagine what causes this. Power ON. What's the problem?

Maybe this is another good reason to have a "sleep" mode on the camera.

I also believe that this is getting blown way out of proportion. The user who originally posted the problem and concern in the other thread has since had very successful shoot day in even colder weather with a portabrace case over the camera. This does not seem unreasonable.

So few shoots have been done it's hard to determine how big a problem tis is. Or is it a big problem that is not talked about much. It's hard to tell.

David
 
 
battistella said:
I can't imagine what causes this. Power ON. What's the problem?

Maybe this is another good reason to have a "sleep" mode on the camera.

I also believe that this is getting blown way out of proportion. The user who originally posted the problem and concern in the other thread has since had very successful shoot day in even colder weather with a portabrace case over the camera. This does not seem unreasonable.

So few shoots have been done it's hard to determine how big a problem tis is. Or is it a big problem that is not talked about much. It's hard to tell.

David
Click to expand...

David I don't think this has been over blown. Check out

im.thatoneguy
Senior Member

"And it's...
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpos...4&postcount=29

not...
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=571

like...
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=135

it...
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1392

snuck...
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3170

up...
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=62046

on...
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=7677

them...
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=75199

without warning...
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.p...&postcount=241"
__________________

This has been a concern from the very beginning and many have asked about the red's ability to work in temperatures.

A cheap HVX200 works in -20C˚ without any problems or PortaBrace or hand warmers. Shouldn't a camera that has a base price that is at least three times the cost of an HVX200 work in cold temps (0 to -20C˚)? By the time the Red Camera is fully outfitted, your looking at a minimum of 30K. The Camera should work in cold temps.

Respectfully

Method
 
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