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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cinema 5d guesses interchangeable

Lee Brandt said:
I'm starting a campaing against the "Run&Gun" small sensor cameras. Well, if Scarlet only has a small sensor option then I'll definitely get it, but I hope they go big.
Click to expand...

Buy an Epic than, I am so tired of the large sensor argument...
 
Selecting a sensor size/shooting format is obviously going to be filed under choice/opinion/flavor.

It's certainly nothing to argue about. Different formats are used throughout the motion picture industry. It's a matter of preference and some people feel rather strong about their "chosen path".

I like the look and feel of S35 and FF35 in terms of lengths, glass, perspective, and working distance. But I'm a bit more picky than the average guy.

Having something closer to S16 can indeed make the entire system smaller and more compact gearing it more towards run n' gunners, documentary, journalism, and other candid styles.

However, I'm of the mindset that Red has already reinvented everything by making the Epic so small and compact, even fully rigged, that the Scarlet can also exist in a similar form factor with basically less features and hopefully a similar sensor size. That would make a it a wonderful and affordable B camera as well. It would still be smaller than many cameras out there, especially when compared to film cameras, and certainly be more powerful than pretty much all of the digital camcorders in this price point. 3k or 4k.
 
2 years ago I was ready to buy the Scarlet. I got the Canon 7D while waiting which helped me develop skills using interchangeable lenses to prepare for a larger camera. The Scarlet is going to be an interesting release in what ever configuration and price point. The HDSLR market will never go away because you can shoot great looking video for $800 body of a Rebel, which most all people can afford. If your shooting a feature film your shooting with an Epic. So for me the Scarlet will fit into the TV / video bracket. I shot a lot of mom and pop shops and do local commercials. I hope the Scarlet will be fast enough to set up, move around and use. Typical shoot time in a local restaurant or store for me is 2 to 3 hours with the 7D. The 7D allows for this fast pace shooting style with acquitted results. I am mostly curious if the increased quality of the shots will be offset by longer shoot times and time in post. I am excited to see the final result of these cameras.
 
Lars Wikstrom said:
I hope the Scarlet will be fast enough to set up, move around and use.
Click to expand...

The Epic is pretty darn fast in terms of a run n' gun or documentary style shooting. Even a quick startup time. Switching lenses, batteries, media is really the only thing that slows you down if you "rig" for a particular style. This has been the same logic for years with many camera systems though.

Lighting is the only thing that really slows productions down if there isn't any set to decorate/build/adjust. Were you having setup time issues prior to DSLRs?

Time in post is an interesting discussion however. I could potentially see support for DNxHD or ProRes being a desired feature for broadcast shooters as (at least here in LA) many television shows have adopted that workflow. I'm more interested in the .R3Ds personally for my typical use/workflow and you can edit natively in R3D just fine. Built in phantom power XLR connections is on my list of what I'm asking Red Santa for. I haven't hated syncing audio in post, but if I can get a nice stream off the bat it would save time. Oddly most of my professional work the last few years I haven't rolled audio on, but I've done it enough by myself to desire an on board solution and expect to do more in coming years.

>= S35 Sensor
>= 3k resolution
>= 60p at native resolution
>= clean 2000 ISO
2x on board phantom power XLR connections
.R3D
Rugged build quality
Electric EF mount option/addition
<= $$,$$$ a small economy car for a startup package
= my hopes, wants, and desires
 
Thanks for the info Phil. I like quality speed productions since I am paid about the same job to job. I developed a philosophy years ago that I only use for a production what I can carry in in 1 trip. My camera / sound gear in 1 bag, my tripod in another the other hand and a Lowel V lighting kit strapped to my back with cords and reflector. My iPad has the script and doubles as a slate with the DSLR Slate app. Magic Bullet Grinder is great for batch conversion to PreRes.

My needs for the Scarlet would be
Large sensor - for a nice DOF.
2K res is all I need - gives a nice slight buffer above 1080.
120p would be nice but no less then 60 for some slow motion.
$6K - $8K body.
Fast boot time - 7D I am recording in 5 seconds from start up if I need to.
 
Phil Holland said:
The Epic is pretty darn fast in terms of a run n' gun or documentary style shooting. Even a quick startup time. Switching lenses, batteries, media is really the only thing that slows you down if you "rig" for a particular style. This has been the same logic for years with many camera systems though.

Lighting is the only thing that really slows productions down if there isn't any set to decorate/build/adjust. Were you having setup time issues prior to DSLRs?

Time in post is an interesting discussion however. I could potentially see support for DNxHD or ProRes being a desired feature for broadcast shooters as (at least here in LA) many television shows have adopted that workflow. I'm more interested in the .R3Ds personally for my typical use/workflow and you can edit natively in R3D just fine. Built in phantom power XLR connections is on my list of what I'm asking Red Santa for. I haven't hated syncing audio in post, but if I can get a nice stream off the bat it would save time. Oddly most of my professional work the last few years I haven't rolled audio on, but I've done it enough by myself to desire an on board solution and expect to do more in coming years.

>= S35 Sensor
>= 3k resolution
>= 60p at native resolution
>= clean 2000 ISO
2x on board phantom power XLR connections
.R3D
Rugged build quality
Electric EF mount option/addition
<= $$,$$$ a small economy car for a startup package
= my hopes, wants, and desires
Click to expand...

Phil:

Like Larson, I'm a DSLR shooter on a APS-C format (Nikon DX 1.5 crop factor). I came from a photography background and made a natural progression into video when this was made possible by the HD-DSLR revolution. However, I do have to admit that sometimes I feel a bit ignorant when it comes to all the different types of output video formats; S35 , FF35, 2/3, 4/3, etc.

Most rumors put Scarlett at either 2/3 or S35, which I'm not quite sure how my Nikon glass will fare. For example, one of the main lenses I have is the 24-70, which in the DX crop translates into 36-105mm. How would it translate (assuming there is a Nikon mount for Scarlett) if it were a 2/3 or S35? Would it even be usable?

Thanks
Marcos
 
David i just read your post. I think you have a very valid point. If this does happen I hope we can send our RED ONe in for some kind of hardware upgrade to keep it competitive.

David Battistella said:
IMHO

3k is gone.

Why?

Jims quote:

5k acquisition, 4k delivery, redray, 4k Home and theater projection.

Where does a 3k fixed camera fit into that statement?
All scarlet cameras should have MX sensors. They just might cap the abilities. But it makes sense to have them as 5k b cams that shoot up to 60fps and match the images of epic m and x.

The announcement could retire the R1 MX or change stage 3, 3.5 and 4 completely.

I love the 2/3rds fixed lens concept, but I can't see where it fits in this landscape. I'm probably very out to lunch on all of this, but that's why I make films instead of manufacturing cameras. :)

David.
Click to expand...
 
Marcos Montenegro said:
Phil:

Like Larson, I'm a DSLR shooter on a APS-C format (Nikon DX 1.5 crop factor). I came from a photography background and made a natural progression into video when this was made possible by the HD-DSLR revolution. However, I do have to admit that sometimes I feel a bit ignorant when it comes to all the different types of output video formats; S35 , FF35, 2/3, 4/3, etc.

Most rumors put Scarlett at either 2/3 or S35, which I'm not quite sure how my Nikon glass will fare. For example, one of the main lenses I have is the 24-70, which in the DX crop translates into 36-105mm. How would it translate (assuming there is a Nikon mount for Scarlett) if it were a 2/3 or S35? Would it even be usable?

Thanks
Marcos
Click to expand...


S35 (at 5K) is roughly equivalent to APS-H (different aspect ratios though) so your Nikon 24-70 (which has an image circle sufficient for FF35mm) will cover it with a 'crop factor' of around 1.25, so your 24-70 would equate to, say, a 30-90. On 2/3rds though, you would have to cope with a 'crop factor' of 3.75 ish, so your 24-70 would equate to, say, a 90-260!
 
G Lap said:
S35 (at 5K) is roughly equivalent to APS-H (different aspect ratios though) so your Nikon 24-70 (which has an image circle sufficient for FF35mm) will cover it with a 'crop factor' of around 1.25, so your 24-70 would equate to, say, a 30-90. On 2/3rds though, you would have to cope with a 'crop factor' of 3.75 ish, so your 24-70 would equate to, say, a 90-260!
Click to expand...

Thanks George for the clarification. Can you give me visual examples of the aspect ratio differences in S35 vs. FF35 and 2/3s? Thanks!

Marcos
 
David beat me to it :), I was about to post the same link, it's a very useful visual guide.
 
Seems like a lot of the sensor size charts have the wrong data for 2/3"HD format. Abel Cine comparator is correct. 2/3" HD reference size is 9.6mm x 5.4mm, not 8.8 x 6.6 which is the old NTSC standard format.
 
Phil Holland said:
However, I'm of the mindset that Red has already reinvented everything by making the Epic so small and compact, even fully rigged, that the Scarlet can also exist in a similar form factor with basically less features and hopefully a similar sensor size. That would make a it a wonderful and affordable B camera as well. It would still be smaller than many cameras out there, especially when compared to film cameras, and certainly be more powerful than pretty much all of the digital camcorders in this price point. 3k or 4k.
Click to expand...
Most of the theories that have been suggested to this point satisfy me reasonably well, but what you're suggesting is precisely what I am hoping for in Scarlet: a scaled-down version of the Epic (in terms of resolution and, to a lesser extent, features) in a similar form factor and at a significantly lower price point. I will almost certainly be purchasing one along with some accessories on day one, but your thoughts sum up my hopes pretty well.
 
The planets seem to be aligning, red putting pressure on the rest of the industry to step there game in cinema brought canons best efforts. In turn red is answering and wont disapiont.
looking forward
 
If Red does go for a larger format Scarlet, I would expect a new gen 4k sensor the same size and format as the original Red 1 M, APS-C size, a bit smaller than Epic's and lower resolution, about 9Mp instead of 14Mp. More than enough to trounce the low end production camera competition, or pretty much anything else including the Alexa.
 
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