CineForm News

[Jeff Coatney]

Operating beyond the envelope defines what I strive to do. Doing what hasn't been done and finding or creating the technology to get there is what seperates us from sweatshops in thailand. It's what defines RED as a company.

Funny when the RED camera goes up against arbitrary obstacles with Sony we get a rant... when RED users get treated seemingly the same way by RED we're the bad guys.

None of that matters if the wings come off the plane while you're flying it.

 

[Jannard]

I think I will take a couple of days off from posting after tonight...

Jim

 

[Casey Green]

Jay, you're getting quite a bit of airtime with the RED Team, and from what I can tell, they are responding in a very positive and understandable way, considering the agreements they have in place.

I feel for you. Your RED Camera is coming soon and you want to stick to your workflow. I have a good feeling you will have the tools in place by the time your Camera arrives, plus with the help of Mark and others here, you will gain some valuable pointers along the way.

 

[reality]

Jay, you're getting quite a bit of airtime with the RED Team, and from what I can tell, they are responding in a very positive and understandable way, considering the agreements they have in place.

Maybe Jay would be better off asking for his reservation back and shooting with something more conventional. If a customer is throughly dissatisfied with the product before even buying it, then it's doesn't make sense for either side to enter into that relationship.

 

[Jannard]

If any customer is thoroughly dissatisfied with our approach, we absolutely would prefer to have them choose another product. And no hard feelings...

Jim

 

[Elizabeth Lowrey]

then i came home and read this thread. what a letdown, to see this noise.

you have to let this evolve, folks. the camera isn't perfect. the workflow needs even more work, on the surface of things. the quest for the grail is closer to its beginning than its end, still. even with several hundred cameras shipped.

SO--

let these people at RED do their damn jobs, and set them up to succeed for all of us by honoring their agreements with their partners! anything less just sabotages the whole endeavor!

besides being addicted to your own drama, jay, why are you acting so shocked about something that you were explicitly told about the workflow being Mac-centric from the first minute that reduser went online? like it or not, that's the information that you were given. you made your deposit based on that information and now you're blaming RED for your decision?? did you think the magic fairies were going to bring you a PC-centric workflow when word one was, from the inception, "Mac first." this isn't news! i have now witnessed the magic they have worked first-hand. but it's just not finished yet.

you should either give them the room they have requested or get your money back, but this endless childish foot-stamping about how RED has "taken away your workflow" is ridiculous.

there is a magical lantern sitting in front of you and all you see is a bedpan. something wrong there.

AMEN! I can't believe half the stuff I'm reading in this thread, and this from a PC only/Sony Vegas user who is not likely to change either any time soon. Here, when the camera is still undergoing radical changes every few weeks and before real mass production has even gotten underway, there is a sudden tide of myopia and misplaced entitlement that would certainly upset and depress me if I were one of those working my ass off 16 or more hours a day to make this product the revolutionary instrument that it is already well on its way to becoming.

 

[Joel Smith]

Your sentiments are close to mine eclaire.

I see the entire A list of the Red team here after work in the wee hours posting in this thread trying to help Jay out personally and professionally and all that Jay can do is bark bark bark and bitch bitch bitch.

I hope Jay wakes up and has a come to god meeting with himself tomorrow because if I were RED, i would yank his reservation out of his non-appreciative hands. To many EXCITED people in line waiting patiently for cameras.

never before have we ever seen direct company support like this and i dont want a few sour apples to take that away from us.

RANT OVER!

 

[Ron Rocco]

Jay and David, you're making it worse for us PC users. I hate using macs as much as you Jay but this camera is revolutionary and it's obvious that to be cutting edge you have to be a bit flexible and patient.

I was seriously researching Cineform up until this thread. Now I'm disgusted. Any company that would illicitly hack another companies stuff to sell more seats is very slimy. I won't do business with Cineform now. The five seats of Cineform I had in mu budget are going straight to FCP licenses as much as it pains me to switch to mac.

 

[Paolo Tinari]

Nice first post Ron...

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

just got my hands on a RED camera finally, for the first time. there are issues, certainly, especially regarding some quirky audio issues.

planet e -

please post any specifics of audio issues you may be having under the AUDIO FORUM - we have been testing build 13 (tested the pre-release) with audio from mic and line - LOTS - and we have had no quirks with the exception that the camera defaults the headphones to -6db instead of 0 - I told that to Stuart - it may even be fixed in the release build.

Thanks!!

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Good morning,

I woke up and read what's been going on since I went to bed. Remarks by a lot of understanding friends, and of course opinions by those who have either no sympathy, did not read carefully, or are just trying to make points with RED.

I raised quite a stink last night. Why? Simple, I was upset. I had something I liked and was using and it was taken away, which now means I must spend time looking for another solution, and in my world, time is money. I HATE losing money.

I was sorry to see the "refund" bomb dropped last night. Jim I wish you and I could spend 5 min on the phone. It's so horrible only knowing someone on the Internet, so much is left out.

I am one of the more loyal people you will ever know, but I am also something that, in my opinion is needed around RED, I am honest, and I give what, in my humble opinion, is earned by the vendors I work with. I am a fan, when it's worthy.

You have a lot of extremes but few "regulars" on here. You have those that feel RED can do no wrong (Like those people who's solution to my problem was to simply say "buy a mac".. Wow, must be nice to have daddy's money) and then you have those people are down on RED no matter what you do.

I'm the guy who says "I'm sold, I love it, but I have concerns, here they are". And cases like last night where a decision by RED costs me money, and I tear the roof off a little bit. (Of course I am not the only one like this, there are a number of "honest" REDUsers, but there's not as many as one might think).

Honestly Jim, think back on the times your vendors messed up a schedule and/or cost you a ton of money.. What was your reaction?

Last night I had some heated exchanges with RED, and while it's never fun, it is healthy. You know where I stand, and you know how strongly I feel about it. In return, I know where you stand and I understand your point of view.

We may not completely agree with each other here. And of course I am not stupid, I am very aware there is more going on here than agreements and quality. To say anymore than that would be unprofessional. I own a company and I know what to keep to myself.

I want to thank Jarred and Rob for going out of their way to be human enough not to listen to my facts and reasons, but to understand my exhaustion and frustration. Sometimes customer service is not about being right, it's about understanding how someone feels. You guys aced that. (Although Rob jumped on me pretty hard in another thread first.. Remind me not to play football with you!... Three weeks man... three weeks

I also want to thank Mark, a person who I can honestly say I am becoming friends with very quickly. And, someone I am beginning to work with as well. I look forward doing more with him. We'll talk Monday dude.

Jim, I understood your point about agreements and quality from your first post, but I was sorry you did not understand how I felt, and how frustrating it was and is. You may be doing the right thing, but that does not make it any easier.

As I said last night, I am done with this now. I will do what I always do, re-evaluate where I am today with the options before me, and then move to the next best path. I will profit from loss.

Jay

 

[planet e]

planet e -

please post any specifics of audio issues you may be having under the AUDIO FORUM - we have been testing build 13 (tested the pre-release) with audio from mic and line - LOTS - and we have had no quirks with the exception that the camera defaults the headphones to -6db instead of 0 - I told that to Stuart - it may even be fixed in the release build.

Thanks!!

offhollywood, it was not my camera so i am not having the issues. it belonged to a nice fella in the next town over, who let me come and play with it--and he has already done extensive posting about his own testing on reduser....and i was certainly not complaining or raising a red flag, only using my observations to point out that the community needs to stand behind this project and be patient while known issues are worked out....

 

[Brent J. Craig]

It's clear a command line app can be written to support AVI / cineform / and other codecs. And it's also clear it can be written in about two weeks.

you have a lot of genius-types over there, and my camera will most likely deliver in 3 weeks. How about you get it done, or something like it, so I/we can edit the footage.

Jay,

Why don't you just send in an exact list of the makes and models of all this hardware you seem so disturbingly attached to. The folks at Red can drop everything and write software for your exact setup. Doesn't matter if you have an unsupported videocard or not enough ram. They should just write some custom software just for you. It only takes two weeks and you're giving them three. Seems more than fair. :sarcasm:

Either buy the gear that is currently supported or wait until yours is. Pretty simple.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Jay,

Why don't you just send in an exact list of the makes and models of all this hardware you seem so disturbingly attached to. The folks at Red can drop everything and write software for your exact setup. Doesn't matter if you have an unsupported videocard or not enough ram. They should just write some custom software just for you. It only takes two weeks and you're giving them three. Seems more than fair. :sarcasm:

Either buy the gear that is currently supported or wait until yours is. Pretty simple.

Your sarcasm is both impressive, and entertaining.

Thank you



Jay

 

[Jannard]

Jay... last night was just "one of those nights". I do understand your position and we are doing what we can to ease your pain. It is frustrating on our end to work so hard and have someone so disappointed. The circumstances that lead to this should have never happened, but they did. Let's all have a cup of coffee and relax. It is all good.

Jim

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Jay... last night was just "one of those nights". I do understand your position and we are doing what we can to ease your pain. It is frustrating on our end to work so hard and have someone so disappointed. The circumstances that lead to this should have never happened, but they did. Let's all have a cup of coffee and relax. It is all good.

Jim

Thank you Jim... It's all good. Sleep helps! (You should try it some day)

I'm grateful for your post, and I have no doubt, months from now this will all be a distant memory.

I'm sure I will figure something out and make this all work. And I'm confident you and the RED team with do everything you can to help me.

I am grateful for the post. Thank you.

Jay

One thing I will never forget though, I was so angry, and venting so much. And SO MANY from RED jumped in to try to make me feel better.. There was frustration on all sides, it's clear, we all care.... A lot.

That has to be a good thing.

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

Me myself , i'd take whatever system i'd need to get my footage edited the right way.
However, I want to build a whole redcentric posthouse starting from september.
I need to plan like anyone else. Planning the construction of the industrial building right now...

I'd like to know as much as possible what will come. This forum has thought me a lot of stuff about the red and the comunity, I've been approached by Scratch a couple of times by now, also by a company that builds it & storage environments for them.
Not knowing what Red exactly will offer by then would be a real killer for me.
Investing min.250k in a network that's not my favour and the persons I work with would really be a pita.
Ok I have some sparetime untill then, but when making my calculations to include everything and to speak to the right people to advise me in doing this takes time and I don't wanna plan this with a certain company , when I'm not even sure this is the way to go, when another sollution is coming.

After having talked to Assimilate a couple of times by now,
them not being to clear what they will offer in the near future (4k output to SXRD4k sony projector or not...at what price???), I get a little scared on investments.... and iridas offering some nice sollutions for pc to work with cineform raw at about 11-13000k and being able to do about the same in some situations for broadcast..... We definately need someone to answer on this subject, especially the Scratch agreement what it exactly does mean and what it will bring us (or cost us when other sollutions will stick their heads up at a much lower price)....

 

[planet e]

those who have either no sympathy, did not read carefully, or are just trying to make points with RED.

so everyone who pointed out your lack of integrity in this matter is either careless, sloppy, or a suck-up?

"did not read carefully" -- what a load!!!!!!!!!!

maybe you're the one who should read a little more closely, what part of the endless reiteration of the "mac-centric workflow" did you miss before placing a reservation? seriously. can you answer that question?

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Jeff, Mark, or Jarred, perhaps it's time for this thread to close.

All involved now understand one another.. Maybe it's time to move on.

Agree?

Jay

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

I really think I need a break from Reduser.

Whatever happened to calm, intelligent discussion??

Jay had a melt down. It happens to the best of us.

Is this really worth turning into another pissing contest and a PC vs mac thing ...

gimme a break! There are more interesting things to discuss on other threads!!

I am not going to close this because I am a participant in the thread - but if another MOD wants to close it down - I'd be happy as well.