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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cineform 4K solution?

Don King said:
Will the 4k online editing be available during October?
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David Newman said:
We don't know, while currently have Prospect 4K builds in beta, we haven't got Redcine (beta or release) to test its export to CineForm 444 yet. Once that is confirmed we can release immediately afterward.
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November? December? During November, I will buy that new laptop coming from the messages exchanged at DVXuser...

(...I should admit that all the editors who have had contact with Mr. Newman, remain his customer for life...)

http://www.sagernotebook.com/product_customed.php?pid=74&action=customize

Can a quad-core part like the Intel® Core™ 2 Extreme Processor X6800 / 4MB L2 Cache, 2.93 GHz, 1066MHz FSB (with RAID 1 or RAID 0 or RAID 5) be a solution for 4k online editing and color correction?
 
Yes, I expect the quad-core mobile CPUs to be amazing they should work fine. Remember disk bandwidth will be the main issue for 2K/4K editing, so use RAID 0 or 5.

Regarding, "November? December?", that is up to Red, as we are ready when RedCine is out.

(...I should admit that all the editors who have had contact with Mr. Newman, remain his customer for life...)
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Wow! Thanks.
 
We believe that we all second the Gordon's comments. At least we here do.

We also have some specific and short questions:

1) Can this laptop handle 4K online?

2) Can this laptop handle 4K color correction?

3) Is the T7800 2.6Ghz processor capable? Or even the T7700 2.4GHz?
 
1) Yes a fast latop; particularly using 4K CineForm RAW. 4K CineForm 4:4:4 is a lot bigger, and even a RAIDed laptop drive system would struggle. In both cases a 2K decode (or lower) would be using for playback editing and preview -- 4K decodes would occur as need for renders and when scrubbing.

2) Yes somewhat. CineForm's simple RT color correction will work as always, however third party color correctors will only scrub and need to be rendered for playback.

3) As you are try to do this on a laptop, go with the fastest possible. Gordon asked about quad-core mobile CPUs (thinking ahead), but today latest dual-cores are still very nice. A workstation is still the optimium solution, but CineForm initially made its business out making HD editing possible on under-powered systems (4 years ago dual stream 1080i on 2.xGhz P4s.) 4K RAW is like 3-4 streams on 1080i -- compute wize.
 
I add my voice to the Cineform supporters. It's not less revolutionary than Red or Birger. But I couldn't understand. Can a quad-core mobile CPUs (laptop) handle 4k online editing and color correction/grading or not? For 4k output, sure. Without any other hardware (I mean any workstation too) ?

Can I deliver 4k? For a filmout, for instance? Just from a simple laptop (quad-core, right) ?
 
Although it should theoretically be possible to do an entire project on a laptop, I wouldn't recommend it. There are much faster computers out there in the form of workstations. Larger screens are nice when editing high rez source. Plus there is the storage issue, even with compression you need large hard drives. While you don't need an uncompressed HD array, a storage system that supports over 100MB/s will really improve performance, even with Cineform. For color correction, what would you use to preview? AJA SDI cards are the only 10bit output supported by Cineform, and you can't put a full sized PCI card in any laptop. Any high end laptop will only be half as fast as a comparably priced desktop workstation. Why would you need that kind mobility in a 4K edit platform?
For quick onset tests on the otherhand, a high end laptop would be very useful, but I would recommend trying to do the majority of 4K post work on a desktop workstation for sure.
 
Different people, different needs. When you're working in the middle of nowhere like a jungle (it's the case), moving from african country to a different country without knowing if you'll have potable water for the day after shower...

4k online editing and color correction/grading mobile, yes that's my need. Is it possible to get it or not? Simple question. If yes, with or without restrictions? If with restrictions, any workaround?
 
yes, these americans are good but funny people.. they think the world at their own standards..
 
Don King said:
Different people, different needs. When you're working in the middle of nowhere like a jungle (it's the case), moving from african country to a different country without knowing if you'll have potable water for the day after shower...

4k online editing and color correction/grading mobile, yes that's my need. Is it possible to get it or not? Simple question. If yes, with or without restrictions? If with restrictions, any workaround?
Click to expand...

I don't fully understand what need you could have for 4K in the jungle, but I will try to give your question a purely technical answer.

A high end laptop will even allow you to export 4K DPX files for film out, provided you have the storage space. The maximum display available on a laptop is 1920x1200 8bit. This is the maximum available preview quality, and will be your biggest limiting factor in 4K post on a mobile system. Cineform will allow you to play back full resolution files at a reduced display resolution. (currently 2K, 4K in the not yet released Prospect 4K) You can see the full resolution if you zoom in on the file, but it doesn't decode the full resolution for full screen work. This can all be done from a RAID in the laptop. Your previews will always be limited to 8bit, which might be an issue for CCR and preparing film out files. Those are the primary restrictions that stand out to me.

The part that I have trouble with is that the only reason I am aware of for onlining in 4K is to have the maximum quality possible. If you are not even going to be able to preview at 10 bit or 2K, why is 4K so crucial for your workflow? Your laptop will be able to process 4K, but you will never be able to really see it until after it is printed to film.
 
I have to agree that 4K finishing on a laptop, while technically possible, doesn't make a huge amount of sense as do need a color accurate display system. However will not stop anyone from trying that, you can always put a calibrated display on the laptop's output.

P.S. Check out the latest on http://cineform.blogspot.com, and please subscribe to RSS feeds. The last entry tipped me over 60k reads. Welcome feedback on stuff I should post.
 
you american guys (not you Mr. Newman), you're sooooo funny.. you like to put your nose in everything you do not understand..

if you don't get it, why don't you.. 'lascia perdere'..? (as warning, i'll not translate.. try to get it, since you're so good in everything you cannot figure..) :bleh:





just for the record.. i love america and a lot of americans.. specially the gals.. :love:
 
David Newman said:
I have to agree that 4K finishing on a laptop, while technically possible, doesn't make a huge amount of sense as do need a color accurate display system. However will not stop anyone from trying that, you can always put a calibrated display on the laptop's output.
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Can we go safe with a calibrated display? I also have a very fair interest on a 4k online moving solution. Editing and color correction, grading etc. I also have some training programs in Africa where I can't proceed with workstations. Only laptops. Going with 4k will mean a higher fee. With 2k or below, my sponsors will pay me less. Please don't ask me why.

Later the output should be ready to go to film-out without any further intervention. Is it possible from a laptop with a proper, calibrated and higher display?

Any other potential problems beyond the display issue (to easily solve however) ?
 
Is the display the only issue related? Can we go with 4k online editing plus CC and grading on a simple laptop?
 
Wow, this thread is a hardcore read!

I just spent a week shooting in Cape Town with the SI2K to cineform and am now pretty much a cineform evangelist. That said, with Red, we will be keeping our entire post pipeline uncompressed RGB 4:4:4 DPX straight from the RAW data. Even the SI2K footage we have shot is now occupying a few TB of RAID 5 storage as DPX. I know it's big, and involves shifting a high data rate, but I can't really imagine grading and finishing any other way than uncompressed.

Maybe I'm just a purist but RAW to RGB 4:4:4 DPX seems a sure way to avoid all of this.

Rich
 
Rich,

See, we see that many will revert to the old trusted and familiar methods. However, if you could still have the flexibility DPX files, but with a 6-10X reduction is storage requirement, would that be the way to go? CineForm is working to make this compression stuff as seamless as possible into new and old style workflows.
 
Hi David,

i like your approach. Before testing your products, i would like to ask two questions.

1) Do you think it makes sense to wait for our trial until your redcined version is out?
2) Is there a way to go back to uncompressed sources when working in cineform? Like generate 4k, "proxy" to cineform, work cineform, switch back to 4k original, output.
 
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