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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cheaper Alternative methods of Capturing Media

I very much doubt I would have a SATA connection. Probably just USB or Firewire.


Jeff Kilgroe said:
Depends what you're uploading to... The SSD's read speed tops out over 260MB/s if you have a proper SATA connection for the reader and fast enough storage to copy to. To the fastest it can go is a bit over 4 minutes for a full 64GB card. At least that is what I have been told and relational to speeds of the 128 and 256 GB SSD's. Takes about 17 minutes to unload a full 256GB card on my faster workstations.
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Although the SSDs seem expensive on first glance, they are actually cheaper per gigabyte than RED CF cards. The best value in storage, but one with the most risk have been Red Drives. $950 for 320GB.

Make sure when considering external recorders that you take into account the extra bulk and power requirements. Your Scarlet is no longer a 5lb camera. SSD allows you to stay compact if that is something your require. The PIX recorder is great, but only does 422. Same with Atomos. Your are truly turning your Scarlet into an HD camera at that point without RAW capability. That might be okay though for your workflows. For others, the ability to have a RAW negative to go back to as Color Science improves or they need to repurpose material that needs a different grade is a nice advantage.

Media is one of those things I put in the Scarlet Buyers Guide. I suggest being prepared to buy the appropriate amount based on the types of jobs you do, how the media is managed, etc. I think a lot of people will find it's a necessary evil. Recording on SSD is just too convenient.

But to each his own, and this is the budget Epic, so it's to be expected that people will look to build budget systems. Perhaps we will see a drop in price of the SSDs over the next couple of years.
 
There is an advantage to using a Scarlet even if you aren't recording RAW. For a lot of stuff I've shot on a 5D the Moire has been murder. Shoot 4k -> 1080p HDMI to a Ninja and you're going to get that nice smooth full de-bayer but hour+ record times.

You can get a working Scarlet rig for $10k (Brain $9750 + $550 REDMote). To record a live 2 hour event with SSDs and touchscreen would run you another $8k or about the price of a Scarlet brain. Compare that to a Ninja and a HDD (for $1500) and you're "only" getting something better than pretty much every other camera on the market.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
There is an advantage to using a Scarlet even if you aren't recording RAW. For a lot of stuff I've shot on a 5D the Moire has been murder. Shoot 4k -> 1080p HDMI to a Ninja and you're going to get that nice smooth full de-bayer but hour+ record times.

You can get a working Scarlet rig for $10k (Brain $9750 + $550 REDMote). To record a live 2 hour event with SSDs and touchscreen would run you another $8k or about the price of a Scarlet brain. Compare that to a Ninja and a HDD (for $1500) and you're "only" getting something better than pretty much every other camera on the market.
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I agree with you. There is a lot to be said with this kind of setup, in particular the example you gave.

Has the debayer quality on the HD-SDI and HDMI outputs been confirmed on Scarlet?
 
hmm I see.

Uh how much 4k footage can a 64 GB card hold? 3k? 2k?
 
Hey thanks a lot Phil

I'm still a little confused with the RC ratios as to what I want to use for my shoot. Is 7:1 the preferred "standard" ratio that most people shoot on for 4k? What would be some recommended combinations of RC ratios to video resolution?

Thanks
 
Michael Pyon said:
I'm still a little confused with the RC ratios as to what I want to use for my shoot. Is 7:1 the preferred "standard" ratio that most people shoot on for 4k? What would be some recommended combinations of RC ratios to video resolution?
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That's a tough one to answer and I only have the Red Epic to go by.

In the feature world, typically shooting between 5:1 and 8:1. However, if you were shooting an live music event for example, you may want to increase your compression to have longer recording times at your disposal so you don't miss a beat. 7:1 is a nice balance for many situations.

My advice for all all new Epic and Scarlet X shooters; shoot a detailed scene at a fairly deep aperture for a few frames at different compression ratios. Observe the details, push the material up/down a few stops, try pulling a key, and see what exactly is going on. You'll know after a few hours of testing what will suit your needs.
 
Are third party drives out of the question? Could a 1.8 SSD of any brand work in a scarlet?
 
alright thanks a lot Phil with the insightful advice. I'll be sure to test it out as soon as the camera comes.
 
As a recent purchaser of a SCARLET-X my company has been looking at multiple options for recording media. Yes, we did buy some SSDs, but that doesn't mean that they will always be the best medium for the workflow that we employ for every job. We plan on purchasing a ATOMOS Samurai for multiple reasons.

1. It provides relatively (relative to RED SSDs) cheap media for long-period recording.
2. It allows for a very quick and efficient post workflow using ProRes HQ.

The third reason is probably the most important and requires more then a one sentence explanation.

Some jobs simply don't require a 4k workflow-whether it be because of HDD space, medium of distribution (i.e. YouTube), or any other reason. The obvious solution for this revelation is to reduce the resolution in camera to 2k in which case you can they record nearly 2 hours of video on a 64GB SSD. However, when employing this solution you are "windowing" you sensor. This effectively makes your 50mm (which is really an 80mm with the 4k crop) lens a 200mm lens after the crop factor of 3.9x. Even when using a Tokina 11-16mm, the widest frame possible is 43mm. This was very worrisome for us, but the Atomos relieved our worry. When working on a job that doesn't require 4k, you can record 1080p24/25/30 into in the Samurai while keeping your in-camera resolution set to 4k. This solution allows us to keep our minimal 1.6x crop on 35mm lenses at 4k while still only recording in 1080p.

And it will still be a better image than our 5D Mark II setup ;)
 
Samuel, I totally agree with you that some work don't always need 4K heavy files . Broadcasted work is rarelly around 1920X1080 and on TNT, satelyte, or wired tv its rarely over 8mbs data rate. Atomos and prores is already a much better quality than the quality in which your work will be broadcasted on HD TV , when it is :). its a good solution to avoid this croping fact for those of us who can't aford ssd or an extra decent Full hd camera.

However sometimes its not handy to also cary around a recorder.
another solution to avoid croping and large data files it would be to shoot in 4K with a compression of 12:1 (or more?); but I don't know how good this look and if at 4K the more compression there is the better the workflow is? I should think so.

another thing: I read here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...-Scarlett-X-VOTE-HERE!/page3&highlight=Atomos
that with a Red pluged in the Atomos you would get a fin black frame around the recorded video?
 
AJ Aguirre said:
Of course you can record to something like the atomos or sound device but why purchase a scarlet to only choke down its capabilities
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Because people shoot in all types of environments and budgets. What works for you may not work for everyone.

As sad as it is not to shoot in 4k or 5k, it's nice to have that option when the environment permits. I did a shoot in December of last year where I spent 2 weeks in the Danakil Desert in Ethiopia. It's pretty F'ing remote. I could find a 100 AK47's easier then finding an AC outlet. RED SDD are expensive. How do you shoot 2hrs a day, keep you batteries charge and be able to offload card onto drives without spending 100k on SSD card and Batteries? I'm usually a crew of one! Generic SSD are a lot cheaper, and CF card even more per GB.

What a lot of people are interested is getting the best image possible, but possible is the key word. It's nice to have options. For what I do, I'll be lucky if I can shoot 4k 50% of the time. But I'm investing in shooting 4k when I can.

also it's a great way to shoot a lower resolution with out the crop factor.
 
Would a Nanoflash recorder work? I ask, because I already own one. I know it's not taking advantage of the full raw quality, but it's good enough for broadcast work.
 
Matt Johnston said:
Yea, AFAIK there is no 16:9 4k output. So you would get letterboxed at least, and maybe pillarboxed? Someone with EPIC would have to post for sure. But I don't think an external recorder is currently usable.
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I understood that there is now a Rez Setting in the menu of "4KHD" would eliminate this by formatting a correct 1080i aspect recorded to an outboard recorder via SDI. Techs at Sound Devices confirmed with me that there is no scaling issue with their PIX recorders if the correct rez settings on the camera are chosen. Of course if you chose an alternate you are stuck with the consequences, as displayed in the Recorder's monitor.

Perhaps RED can confirm this "4KHD" setting and its relationship to 1080 aspect?


Stu Aull
Alaska
 
stu aull said:
I understood that there is now a Rez Setting in the menu of "4KHD" would eliminate this by formatting a correct 1080i aspect recorded to an outboard recorder via SDI. Techs at Sound Devices confirmed with me that there is no scaling issue with their PIX recorders if the correct rez settings on the camera are chosen. Of course if you chose an alternate you are stuck with the consequences, as displayed in the Recorder's monitor.

Perhaps RED can confirm this "4KHD" setting and its relationship to 1080 aspect?


Stu Aull
Alaska
Click to expand...

According to this thread:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?63832-PIX-240-with-Red-Epic-Camera&

even in 4KHD you get some issues.
 
RED is working on a scaling function to eliminate the letterboxing on the output. Not sure when it will be implemented. Maybe it will be standard on Scarlet.

Ands do make sure to do lots of testing with the RGB output to make sure it suits your needs.
 
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