Canon EOS R5 with 8K video! No crop!

[Björn Benckert]

It is easily FF with an off the shelf speedbooster.


Good points otherwise.

Thanks Phil too, good points.

Komodo is the bomb but like to keep perspective.

Speedboosters dies not change anything about sensors or their sizes. What you write above is the same as saying just use a lens that has a smaller projection, shorter focal lenght and higher speed.

 

[Robert Hofmeyr]

8K 12-bit raw or 422 10bit H265 in DCI or UHD. 45mp 3:2 sensor with 8192x4320/35mp video. Internal 8k>4k full frame downscale up to 30p, as well as uncropped 4k/120fps (no word on if it does that raw). DPAF2 and 3stops IBIS (8 stops with new IS RF lenses). Shipping July 30th with an MSRP of $3900USD.

What do you guys think?

I think from what we know it looks fantastic. And the R6 is also really impressive (but no raw video afaik). I'm sure the IBIS will be great. Waiting to find out about raw recording limitations in high temperature environments, and rolling shutter.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Global shutter
Capability for long nonstop recording capability
Redcode Raw

are probably the main advantages of Komodo over R5

I plan on purchasing both and moving to RF lenses as RED implements (IIRC RF lenses won't be supported initially - correct me if that's wrong) but with IBIS, Canon AF, 8K, and better still functionality, I can see the R5 becoming a daily driver.

 

[Robert Hofmeyr]

Global shutter
Capability for long nonstop recording capability
Redcode Raw

are probably the main advantages of Komodo over R5

Yeah, but IBIS and eye detect DPAF are really useful as well. I'm also looking at a Komodo and a new Canon, but I don't think I'll be able to afford the R5. Am thinking Komodo for raw, long takes, high temp, global shutter. R6 for stills, run and gun, AF, and perhaps low light shooting.

 

[Sergio Perez]

Feeling pretty stupid now. How important is global shutter? Gonna pay $6k for 6k while canon users are paying $4k for 8K AND FULL SENSOR SCALING.

Don’t feel. There’s Canon Raw and then there’s Redcode raw. From what I saw from the r5 launch video, there’s absolutely nothing to “fear”.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Feeling pretty stupid now. How important is global shutter? Gonna pay $6k for 6k while canon users are paying $4k for 8K AND FULL SENSOR SCALING.

Depends on situations, global shutter can be very important.

Price is a big issue - <$4K for 8K is pretty potent and Canon can afford to put major bang for buck on the body because of volume and their real profit center is the lenses - an area where RED doesn't compete. With the switch to RF mount and the added optical capabilities and lighter weights there will be major sales to existing Canon users for lens upgrades.

 

[Mike P.]

Feeling pretty stupid now. How important is global shutter? Gonna pay $6k for 6k while canon users are paying $4k for 8K AND FULL SENSOR SCALING.

If you need global shutter, there is no substitute... ...well, except maybe 8-stops worth of IS, which would help mitigate a lot of it caused by camera movement (but not subject skew due to action). So, yeah, rolling shutter is still a concern.

I would also like to know if it can do 4k raw internally too (both the 120p mode *and* 8k>4k internal downscale mode). Something tells me it won't... like it seems like a no-brainer, but who knows. I like that it has 24.00 too.

They also didn't mention if it could do 8k raw on the CFExpress, while simultaneously doing 10bit 422 proxies on the SD card (can't the 1DXm3 do that?)

Hell, they didn't mention any of the nitty-gritty; DR, Rolling Shutter, ISO, heat/rec-time... but, yeah, sub-$4k for 8k FF raw is quite nice. Definitely expect there's going to be a lot of hyper-sharp video-looking footage being posted to Vimeo/YouTube though. Lol.

Really curious to see how Sony responds with the A7s3, which is also supposed to be announced soon, too.

 

[Maz Mawlawi]

Hot damn! This is very promising.... I have always been a die hard RED fan boy but honestly I am way more excited about the Canon than the Komodo at this point.... Let’s see how Sony responds...

 

[Audy Erel]

The R5 promotional video by Peter McKinnon is looking good and very inspiring..

 

[Mike P.]

I don't think the A7s3 will do internal raw, which is bit of a deal breaker for me (unless it does everything else better... Sony's typically have more DR and arguably better for motion, but man that R5 ticks a lot of boxes.)

What I don't get is that Canon is saying 1tb = 51mins of 8k DCI 30p (so, maybe ~64mins at 24p?). Which is almost the same as Komodo 6k HQ (512gb for 30mins).

 

[Björn Benckert]

I “fear” a client not giving a shot about “global shutter” but about footage being either full frame, or more importantly 8K.

Red couldn’t have made Komodo 8k?

What else is RED working on?

At this point I am as I have always been, a fanboy.

Only now it’s true as as others mention Sony will announce the A7s3.

Monstro is 80kbase price? This is barely 4 thousand dollars.

A lot of our clients still prefer Alexa mini instead of LF just because they can use s35 lenses and that they simply dont want the larger files. So I think 6k or 8k will not really be a water splitter and regarding FF. My prediction is that soon when everyone has a LF arri will realise their 6k s35 camera and if picture quality is improved from their current imager but is more dense then a lot of people will retun to the S35 format.
Also rolling shutter is a huge deal especially for the field that Komodo is design for, small light weight cameras are often used when camera move fast, action shots etc. Then VFX scenes and not to mention, it looks better I might imagine things but I spot it on every Komodo footage I seen and I think there is plenty of clients that will like the none rolling shutter look as well.

But sure I really dont think Komodo will be the goto camera for rental clients and such. Its a speciality camera as its so small and have its speacial features and then its also a very good camera for owner/operators to own as it simply does not cost much and does not need to much gack around it to produce an image, works with little gimbals etc.

 

[Michael Hastings]

snip:

A lot of our clients still prefer Alexa mini instead of LF just because they can use s35 lenses and that they simply dont want the larger files. So I think 6k or 8k will not really be a water splitter and regarding FF. My prediction is that soon when everyone has a LF arri will realise their 6k s35 camera and if picture quality is improved from their current imager but is more dense then a lot of people will retun to the S35 format.
Also rolling shutter is a huge deal especially for the field that Komodo is design for, small light weight cameras are often used when camera move fast, action shots etc. .

IIRC I saw a video of all the R5 menus and there is specifically a 1.6 crop mode (APS-C or basically S35) something like 5.7K that presumably will be a very common cinema mode for use with the S35 lenses. Good PL adapters are already available. Full frame depth of field is not always desirable and can be difficult for focus. The ability to have full frame when desired, combined with IBIS is a pretty potent capability.

 

[Daniel Wilson]

This camera is going to change the industry FOR SURE!

 

[Daniel Kelly Brown]

Game changer for sure. Already sold one of my red cams to make way for it. Just need a light weight gimbal camera at this point and this thing might not even need a gimbal if using rf lenses plus stabilization on sensor. That is seriously badass, what a sick camera, well done Canon!

At this point stoked for useable autofocus as well.

 

[Mike P.]

Uh-oh, hasn't even shipped yet and the rumour mill is saying it has overheating issues/record time limitations due to excess heat in 8k, which would basically be a blow-out. Hopefully it's just the prototypes and/or can be fixed via firmware, but that would definitely put a wrench in the gears and make production-level use severely hampered.

On the plus side, it also does a C300m3-style image stabilization internally... In addition to IBIS, there is a "post" IS mode that crops in 10% and gets rid of further jitters on the fly in video modes!

 

[Phil Holland]

I “fear” a client not giving a shot about “global shutter” but about footage being either full frame, or more importantly 8K.

Red couldn’t have made Komodo 8k?

What else is RED working on?

At this point I am as I have always been, a fanboy.

Only now it’s true as as others mention Sony will announce the A7s3.

Monstro is 80kbase price? This is barely 4 thousand dollars.

Feeling pretty stupid now. How important is global shutter? Gonna pay $6k for 6k while canon users are paying $4k for 8K AND FULL SENSOR SCALING.

Hi Andrew,

First some words of concern. A couple months ago you were worried about an 8K Helium camera being replaced by a 6K Komodo camera. That whole conversation that transpired here on REDuser highlighted the fact that you were overlooking all of the specifications of what both systems did.

Now we're in a place where an 8K camera might be competing with a 6K camera and it also appears you're missing pieces from the whole picture.

I'll be getting an R5 and I did get to briefly see it a bit ago, but the shear distance between it and Monstro or Helium is pretty wide. And it's not just the gap between 8K 30p versus 60p, nor the differences in DR, and "other things". I don't think I've ever seen a camera launch/announcement where so many of the early testers skirted around the realities of the body overheating within 7-20 minutes of rolling while mentioning it in various first look videos that launched moments after the announcement.

But now the full info seems to be leaking out that max recording time at about 73 degrees Fahrenheit/23C is 20 minutes. And nobody that I know of these early testers who released videos did stress testing on that, but 2 mention it for sure.

Here's a graphic from the manual for you:

Now that embargo is over and I can literally talk about all those who had NDAs and who did not. Yeah, somewhere between 7-20 minutes of rolling at 8K. And that's not a world of roll for 7 minutes, overheat, wait 30 seconds, and start shooting another 7 minutes either btw. That's a you get an error and can't film until the sensor is cool sort of thing.

Bare in mind on any of the RED camera I filmed long days, long takes, and in rather non-human friendly weather in the realm of too hot and too cold. That stuff right there is going to keep that camera off of professional sets, but will make travel and certain commercial shoots doable. And I'm certain we'll see some sort of camera cooling accessory down the line for the R5. Hell, any proper digital cinema camera for that matter as this isn't even a RED thing to have a camera work all day.

Even with this overheating, it will be a very useful tool. I commend Canon actually being so honest about it upfront this time around. Ironically I am mainly interested in it for stills and occasionally motion and it appears I'll be holding onto my 5DsRs for a while longer too.

Tech is moving fast Andrew. But the data sheet mentality that seduces you isn't exactly how any of this is working. And you're overlooking a lot of the datasheet.

The hottest take is that if you need to deliver 8K, you need a camera that captures 8K or up. If you need to deliver 4K, you need a camera that captures 4K or up. The place we are now is the zone where 8K has been around for 4 years and is still the distant horizon in terms of mass market content delivery and currently the industry as a whole is navigating more and more towards 4K delivery. And this is coming from somebody who primarily works in 8K. And I'm certainly aware so many are still delivering 2K. The whole "game" is extremely dynamic when it comes to cameras now. This is squarely the reason I own various cameras because even though I objectively own the best there currently is on the market with Monstro, there are uses for other cameras when it comes to those who make a living making moving images.

I own two Monstros, more recently a Komodo and plan on getting another one or two, and I have cameras from Sony, Canon, etc. here. I don't "feel stupid" about any of this. In relationship to Monstro or Helium, you have 8K 60p sensors that can handle rigors of actual production work and can do that all in REDCODE RAW. Some of the beta testers of the R5 hit me up along the way asking about "how to work with the 8K Canon RAW" stuff and that whole concept and the subsequent data rates are very new and chunky for some people.

I certainly understand how the world looks confusing to potentially one camera body owners perhaps, but I don't know any DSMC2 owners who got shook about today's announcement, similarly for Komodo's launch really. Mainly because the R5 might be useful as a b-cam in comparison to quickly grab a shot or something. Komodo you can roll with all day and does have that global shutter. Your questions about how useful that is overlooks you asking the question "how useful is global shutter to what I shoot".

In a year, there will be new cameras, in months there will be new cameras. There are always new cameras. Don't freak out. Look closer at what they do and actually are.

 

[Thomas B.]

Well, the overheating issue is no surprize, IMO. 8k recording to CFexpress in such a small (very compact built) body just generates a lot of heat that can't be dissipated as fast as it is generated. period. If Komodo would have 8k, HFR and maybe dual CFexpress slots in its small form factor, RED would have had the same problems for sure when there's no space for an effective heat dissipating / built in cooling system. You need to be realistic (and a bit sceptic) when new products are being announced. The R5 will never compete with Komodo or any other Digital Cinema Camera, just because it is a mirrorless STILLS camera, and that's what most people will use it for.
I agree, the improved "intelligent" continuous autofocus and 20fps (electronic shutter) help a lot when doing wildlife / sports photography, I'm looking forward to use it - wondering how it performs with my EF lenses, too. BTW, I was wondering what's going on in one of Canon's "Wildlife" ambassadors when he realized how much easier it is from now on, to get the shot right, due to the mentioned improvements...in terms of: As the competition grows, this might lead to price drops for photographs / jobs, etc...
I see the R5 as a B or C cam for low budget jobs, for short takes, stabilized, with continuous autofocus.

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Every 30 years or so, Canon innovates. And they have my respect from a tech POV. It's not going to get me on board, given what I like and what I want to do. But, here is why I'm grateful for this camera, even though I have no interest in any of Canon's systems:

- People will finally shut up about optical viewfinders. The NPCs now have the permission of the "big two" (now Sony and Canon) to go full digital.

- People will finally admit that DSLRs are dead, and have been for years, save for a niche application here and there. Once again, the "big two" gave permission for those who need that extra push.

- Sony will hopefully never rest on its laurels. The A9II should have been noticeably better. Still great, of course, but not as much forward thinking as I hoped for.

Final note: Canon is lucky that the market didn't kill its DSLR system before they killed it for themselves. I mean, Nikon made better sports cameras even since the D3, and the A9 kicked both their heads in.

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

It must get tiring educating people on the reality of spec sheet vs real world, but it must be done. Experience is the only true teacher, but guys like Phil have the patience of a saint and I don't know how people like him do it for so long. The same questions, the same conversations over and over on the battle of the current crop of cameras, it all repeats itself generation after generation in the digital era. Much respect for the drive it takes to be an educator. I'm burnt out just reading. It truly all just repeats.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

Also this

https://i.imgur.com/pF41KEg.png