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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Canon 7D looks quite Nice

Graeme Nattress said:
Well, if the full sensor cannot be read out that fast, it doesn't matter what port you tie it to...
Click to expand...

I'm guessing the full sensor maxes out at 8fps for raw which is the stills burst rate, right?
 
Digic V on the landing ground ?

Digic V on the landing ground ?

Maybe for artifacts and aliasing, better results will come with Digic V Canon processor with true dedicated parts for video. The actual Digic IV wasn't designed for that special work...
 
Juan Baranchuk said:
What about good zooms for Canon 7D?

I have tested the Nikon 17-55mm 2,8 (DX) with a Nikon DSLR and I felt it was perfect for video use.

I would like a good zoom for my future Canon 7D, maybe with this adaptor http://www.16-9.net/nikon_g/ should the Nikon work OK? (resolving the problem of the electronic iris of the Nikon)

What about a wide zoom 17-55 from canon with no breathing, and with hold focus through the zoom? Any experiences?

Waiting for Scarlet 2/3 impatiently!
Until then, I think I will use the 7D.
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Just get a canon zoom 17-55 F2.8 EF-S is an excellent lens and has IS and works fine on the RED (and future epic-x) since the sensor size is the same as 7D. Alternative is 24-70L (plus 70-200) is basically the standard lens for traveling pro Canon photographers and works quite well for movies - relatively little breathing. When it is time to move to RED1, Epic or scarlet you can use the Birger mount or one of the possible smart mounts from RED.

If you want a little cheaper the Zeiss Contax Yashicas primes are basically the same optically as the compact primes zeiss is selling now and can be used on Canon with a $20 adapter. If you really want to go cheaper the Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 3.5-4.5/28-70mm in C/Y mount goes for about $150 on ebay.
 
Got my 7D on Monday, GREAT camera, feels lke a 5D in your hands, viewfinder is phenomenal.

One thing I noticed: Rolling shutter is singificantly reduced, negligible really, when shooting 720p60. Makes sense: in order to achieve that frame rate, they need to refresh the sensor faster. SO, I have two questions:

WHY NOT have a firmware mode that refreshes the sensor in 1/60th of a second or so matter the frame rate? Since we're all shooting at least 180 degree shutter this would make a ton of sense! Trammel, are you listening? Sounds like a Job for Magic Lantern! I wonder if there's some reason they can only do this in 720p mode.

IS THERE A WAY to make a good-looking 24p out of 60p? The 30p to 24p conversions I've seen have mostly been messy, but I've seen some really great 60i to 20p (through cineform, for example), surely coming from 60p would be even better?
 
obin said:
crop is fantstic is matches the RED ONE!
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I would love to work out the exact numbers to make a comparison chart including all Red One aspects! I ordered my 7D in part as a digital director's viewfinder. Will be great to also be able to shoot and show.

Michael, you crammed a lot of good info in one post. That is pretty much all I've looking at lately, MM Contax sound like a great way to go too. I get my 24-70 soon, but plan to get a Tokina along side it.

Eric, 720p might be reading less photosites so each frame is read faster... I guess.

Can't you set shutters manually?
 
Shutter speed yes, but that doesn't change the sensor refresh rate, as far as I can tell. Not sure exactly how to make sense of that. I can definitely tell you though that if you look at 720p60 footage on which you've dropped every second frame, and then you look at 1080p footage shot at 30fps, but rolling shutter is a MUCH worse on the 30fps footage. I'll try to post an example later this afternoon.
 
Interesting. I did notice that on this video the skew was nearly perfect, at least to my eyes: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=185109

There is a whole lot of other stuff wrong with the image of course, but this will e one bad ass personal camera and help a lot for scouting and lining up shots for Red! Even video story boarding.

I wish I'll be able to afford a Scarlet S35 when it comes out. But for sharing purposes the h.264 actually helps me, with about 1:36hs in each 32GB CF you can just e-mail right from the card I guess. I hope we will be pleasantly surprised and find that Scarlet will offer an in-camera super compressed option, like RC10 or something. :) Now that would be sweet. Everything, all in one. The only thing that could make it better is the faster frame rates and lower heavier RAW options of Epic, and larger sensors, since Red will let you pick sensor areas equal or smaller than your actual sensor! That will be E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G all in one.
 
musings on 7D video, internal workings

musings on 7D video, internal workings

Eric Ferguson said:
Shutter speed yes, but that doesn't change the sensor refresh rate, as far as I can tell. Not sure exactly how to make sense of that. I can definitely tell you though that if you look at 720p60 footage on which you've dropped every second frame, and then you look at 1080p footage shot at 30fps, but rolling shutter is a MUCH worse on the 30fps footage. I'll try to post an example later this afternoon.
Click to expand...

I'd be very interested to see any samples you might have! It would make sense that the rolling shutter is better (faster sensor readout & reset) if the 720p60 mode does line-skipping to achieve that rate. I am assuming it's a sensor speed limitation, and not a downstream processing one, as the 7D has more than enough memory to buffer a full frame of data.

I've seen one claim online that the 7D does not do line-skipping, just pixel binning, but that would be surprising. Any chance you can shoot a zone plate in 720p mode (or 1080 for that matter) and grab a still from it? You could print out one of the patterns here:
http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patterns/Zone720-hardedge-A.png
http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patterns/Zone720-hardedge-B.png

(of course, you want the printout far enough away from the camera so that you are testing the camera's resolution, and not your printer's.)
 
jbeale said:
I'd be very interested to see any samples you might have! It would make sense that the rolling shutter is better (faster sensor readout & reset) if the 720p60 mode does line-skipping to achieve that rate. I am assuming it's a sensor speed limitation, and not a downstream processing one, as the 7D has more than enough memory to buffer a full frame of data.

I've seen one claim online that the 7D does not do line-skipping, just pixel binning, but that would be surprising. Any chance you can shoot a zone plate in 720p mode (or 1080 for that matter) and grab a still from it? You could print out one of the patterns here:
http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patterns/Zone720-hardedge-A.png
http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patterns/Zone720-hardedge-B.png
(of course, you want the printout far enough away from the camera so that you are testing the camera's resolution, and not your printer's.)
Click to expand...


I think that is a RED ONE test, and not a 7D test...
Could you check it please ?

Thanks
 
7D just shot at our facility... have to say the stills were great but video was pretty janky on ation shots... and the audio? just horrible... I dont get the fascination... other than price... and what Robert said above.. but then it seems spendy for video story boards.

I realize not everyone is a filmmaker on here... so horses for courses. But I saw the footy and was underwhelmed and felt worse that they lost a days shooting with unusable audio.
 
If you do dual system sound you can just use the camera audio for reference. I'm willing to bet a bunch of music videos get shot with the 7D in the next two years. It has its place.
 
Samples are not posted yet but apparently the 7D's HDMI outputs a recordable 720p which doesn't show the bad aliasing! So apparently the aliasing was introduced by the h.264 compression. Or at least in great part. So it would be very interesting to see how something like a nanoFlash would work with it!

Of course nothing like 100fps 5k RC RAW, but very interesting if it could be turned into a better HVX of sorts with a S35 sensor and crazy low light capabilities.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=185209
 
zone plates for camera testing

zone plates for camera testing

Juan Baranchuk said:
I think that is a RED ONE test, and not a 7D test... Could you check it please ?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean? The links I posted on this page
http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patterns/index.html (which is my own page) are in a subdirectory called "red" but they are just digital files generated by software on a PC. Nothing specific to the Red camera. They can be printed out and used for testing any imaging system: a RED, a DSLR, a flatbed scanner, etc.
 
you know, it's psychedelic...
thanks for posting thought.
I am a big supporter of what canon is doing, but those charts are psychedelic in a dizzy way :)
cheers
 
jbeale said:
I'm not sure what you mean? The links I posted on this page
http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patterns/index.html (which is my own page) are in a subdirectory called "red" but they are just digital files generated by software on a PC. Nothing specific to the Red camera. They can be printed out and used for testing any imaging system: a RED, a DSLR, a flatbed scanner, etc.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying!
 
From a couple days of shooting the 7D I'd have to say RED guys won't be trading their RED's in for 10 (damn, that got my attention 10 7D's or 1 RED One). It's a nice camera but there's enough problems with moire right now that I guess it'll stop many from using it as their main motion picture camera.

I do think it feels like a 1080P camera and might be inclined to say it looks better at 1080P than RED does when RED is at 2K but I haven't tested that. Pretty sure I'm right though. It's definitely giving you more than a 720P Varicam IMO so I wouldn't call it a 720P camera.

It's noisier than RED, there are macroblocking artifacts in the noise. Neat Video cleans all that up perfectly though. Neat Video is some great software, I'm tellingya.

There are shots I simply can't get with RED right now. Got a shot coming up next week that is on a dashboard looking through a steering wheel up at our hero. 7D. I can get it lower and further away which is what we're after. (no we're not removing the window, yes we're wussies)

What the 7D is actually very good at is anything shallow DOF like most everything Phillip Bloom seems to shoot on his demos. If you shoot that on the street doc-ish thing then I'd give the 7D a big thumbs up. Way better than RED in terms of ergonomics and intimidation factor. Maybe Scarlet ends up being better when it comes out. For now, 7D.

What the 7D is bad at (in video) is deep DOF stuff. Any highlighted straight lines like telephone lines or car grills etc just turn to complete jaggy CRAP. And that's a serious flaw.

If they fix that they've got a mini RED and it's one helluva camera. But I'd say the moire is probably a deal breaker for anyone who already owns an EX1 level camera.

If you need a still camera and you have a Canon based RED like I do then GET IT. I've been doing storyboards and previz with it already. Wow, what a directors viewfinder. Plus terrific stills on set using the same lens as the main camera. And I can confidently use it to get crazy camera moves, tight spots and alternative angles. But I won't pick it for the main shooting cam. RED is simply better.

This whole post is anecdotal, but if I thought the 7D was better I'd say it 'cause I just say what I think is accurate and try not to be too fanboy about anything. It's a very nice camera. But I think Scarlet has a reprieve from the competition. For now. :-)
 
I may be completely misunderstanding this but, on the same DVXuser thread is seems people are saying that the HDMI is not 720p, but 1080p (needing pull-down)!! If so, the only drawbacks would be some aliasing still present, skew when compared to other pro-sumer cameras, but with all the advantages it has. The record light seems to be on the image,but if you are cropping for 2.33:1 or so then that should be absolutely no issue at all.

I hope I am not wrong about that cause that would make it a fantastic compliment for the Red One for EXT. NIGHT scenes! Till the Mysterium-X rolls out with 800ISO, which I (humbly) believe will easily be capable of being pushed to match the sensitivity capabilities of the 7D.

Is anyone feeling this?

EDIT: Crud... it seems there is a whole lot of other stuff on the image, which may be 1440 x 1080 to begin with, allowing you to rescue only a 720p'ish sector.
badputer.gif


ALSO: Resolution chart (h.264) http://www.vimeo.com/6870473
 
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