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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Camera Op / DP straw poll

Anybody who has used an LCD on set knows what it will be like. Even LCDs designed to be used in sunlight will look better under some sort of shade. While a hood will do some of the trick, bright day exteriors can be a wash. I often find myself draping some duvatine over my head to shade the monitor. For long shows where I'm working as an AC, I'll build a little duvatine tent that I can fit under. It covers the monitor, my side of the lens, my follow focus and leaves a large enough window on the subject side that I can still properly judge focus distance. A sweatshirt works as well.
 
I think TJ is getting at something here in that a 2.5" wide viewfinder display will tend to not appear as sharp as a 7" LCD panel even if they both have the same stated resolution. I know that the Sony C30 viewfinder which is in use on the Genesis has a 960x540 resolution, which is less than 720p (1280x720, right?) but it's pretty far from being able to deliver critical focus, more so than these numbers should dictate.

As several have pointed out here, when you have a focus puller it's nice for them to have an onboard monitor to be able to see the framing (knowing when someone is entering the frame really helps with the timing of a rack) and the highly-anticipated focus assist feature can be activated on this monitor, leaving the viewfinder unencumbered for the operator. This will be especially helpful for those who are acting as operator and DP as they will be likely be seeing a less distracting image. I've even worked with two LCD's onboard; one for the assistant, and another for the director.
 
Since RED One will have an HDMI tap, and all taps will be hot, perhaps a wireless HDMI transmission to the focus puller's monitor (a separate monitor from the RED monitor), would free up the RED monitor for auxiliary use by the shooter, even if the shooter is primarily using the EVF or another LCD. There are now wireless HDMI units for under $400 with a 300' range. If they are reliable, and the transmitted resolution is good, and the RED One is equipped with a lens that can recieve remote instructions from the AC, it may open up some interesting focus pulling and monitoring possibilities.
 
AC chilling in video village

AC chilling in video village

Feel free to reel me in here but I have been wondering if it would be possible to pull focus remotely using a wireless FIZ controller and wireless HDMI driven big monitor (23"+)?

I realize that antenna helpers may be required but that tech is well established. In some set-ups you could hardwire the HDMI without bumming out the operator. You could also hardwire an antenna extension cable to a point near the rig to ensure reliable operation of the FIZ controller if range is an issue.

I am so nuts I am even planning to put a projector in the camera support van so I can pull focus looking at a 60" screen while sitting in a captains chair next to the Espresso machine :D . 1st AC could be the best job on the crew ;)
 
You guys are indeed barking up the right tree. On the two Genesis jobs I did last year (I single these out from any F900 or Varicam jobs I've done, because the S35 sensor on the Genesis makes it much more comparable to RED when it comes to these issues), my camera assistant pulled focus fulltime with a remote system (Panavision's RDC on one, and the Preston FIZ on another). He would triangulate a position between the camera and the actors and use a 15" Astro monitor on a stand for reference, which was generally in magnify mode and with the detail cranked up to create "sparklies", like a focus assist feature. Baird also used a Panatape with remote readout mounted on the hand controller, and would also use a tape measure and drop marks as needed. A number of other A-list assistants are using a similar approach; on film jobs they don't use the monitor but they do pull from off to the side.

Being too far off set (i.e. video village) means that the assistant loses the ability to take visual cues from the actual actors and whatever reference marks they may have laid down. By simply using the monitor alone (and, I suppose, the remote focus readout if equipped and not out of range), the AC is deprived of much of their toolset and thus can only pull focus in a reactive state, which will likely be less successful (harder to anticipate exactly how much an actor lurches forward unexpectedly if you can't see their feet).

HDMI is an interesting option. The question is, is there a delay in transmission? If so, this will also make things complicated for the assistant as they will be reacting to two different sets of timing. I'm also curious at just how reliable the transmission is--it would be devasting for the AC if there was a hit in the picture right at a critical point.

Both of my Genesis shows required the camera to be always hardwired back to the engineering tent, where we had a 24" Sony HD monitor and a 23" Cinema display, so the DP could watch the pristine image at all times. this was inconvenient at best for dolly shots; annoying for handheld, and downright painful for Steadicam, but it was mandated and there it was. Obviously for lower-budget shoots where the DP is operating, a hardline cable may not be necessary, but I personally would always want to be able to jump up and check out a large monitor under a controlled environment to double check exposure etc. All of HD shooting experience has involved a lot of running back and forth to the camera, actually! The only exception was on a feature when I used a remote system to operate the camera while watching the HD display on the engineering cart, which allowed me to keep a good eye on the lighting at all times.
 
Nice rack

Nice rack

Humans, probably because our ancestors had to have superior spatial recognition skills in order to consistantly hunt successfully and survive battle, can indeed triangulate amazingly well - especially with drop markers, tapes and a well chosen position on set relative to the camera and the action. Moving the focus puller off set, even with the advantage of a large image to see critical focus on, may give away too much of the innate spatial sense. Still...

If the actors hit their marks (yes, but some are great at it) and the pace of the movements are not too quick the "reactive" focus racks should look pretty damn good. If the HDMI outs include the focus assist tech that Red has been dropping hints about it might be even more viable. I wonder if the tap for the Red LCD can drive a wireless transmitter or long cable? It might be limited to 720 by 1280 but if the focus assist is good enough it might be worth the step down from 1080 by 1920.

As far as I know there should be less than one frame of delay in the HDMI wireless so I don't think that will hurt my fiendish plan. I am wondering about putting an HVX on set in a wide, high angle lock off as a spy cam hardwired to a LCD monitor that sits adjacent to the projected image to provide perspective and make it easier to anticipate entrances and exits. I also would want to walk around the set with a tape and draw a map on graph paper like in high school drafting class to use as a reference if there are a lot of racks and/or the stop is under 2.8.

I have heard great things about the Preston FIZ and I believe that CVB is developing a remote FIZ at a very attractive price point that will allow buying rather than renting.

Yes, this seems like a lot of gyrations but it sure is attractive to be able to pull focus looking at a 60" image. You may be a half a beat late sometimes but when you do find focus it will be dead on. Generally the nightmare is when its just a bit off and no one knows until after the strike.
 
That's some excellent input Charles and Blair...

Its going to be interesting to test out the monitoring and focusing options when using RED One. If the latency of HDMI wireless is miniscule, and units are dependable, it may open up some cool options that free up the operator to move, especially with stabilizer sequences, POV shots, etc. Perhaps the focus puller will never get as far away as video village, but to just get him/her far enough away from the operator to free up the operators movements, yet close enough to get operator cues and see actors mark accuracy, would be an improvement on the set.

I’m real interested to check out the remote focus unit that Curt (CVB) has developed.

I keep thinking about using twin Segway electric carts on the set - one for the operator, and one for the focus puller. Steadicams are used on Segways, with smooth, quiet results. If a Steadicam-rigged Segway was used by the operator (shooter), and a second Segway was used by the focus puller, and the focus puller was very clear on the shooter's movements and actor's marks for each shot, the shooter and focus puller could dance their Segways in unison, with the focus puller using an HDMI-remoted tap from the shooter's RED One, a monitor mounted on his/her Segway, and a FIZ/CVB/? unit for relaying focusing to the RED One. The creative possibilities with this type setup would be amazing. If there are a lot of cables and floor-level obstacles in the travel path, Segways couldn't be used. For single-shooter EFP use with deeper DOF shots, a Segway would open up a lot of POV, side-by follow, etc. shot possibilities. Few people are going to own one unless they could keep it busy, but you could just rent them when you needed them.

For those not familiar with Segway, they are 2-wheel electric carts that drivers steer by slight pressure with your feet. Link: http://segwayofusa.com/
 
Definitely there would be an advantage when everyone lands at a stop, so that you can see critical focus. It feels like a disadvantage every other time. Imagine a shot where the camera is pushing past a series of staggered actors at a fairly good clip. You need to draw the focus closer as you approach one actor, then throw it deep to the next and immediately reverse direction and start drawing them in closer, and so on...doing this via visual feedback will almost certainly result in being ahead or behind the timing, always playing catchup. Being able to distinguish if one is slightly shallow or slightly deep can be very hard if you aren't on set personally able to witness the positions of camera and actor, and searching around to find focus is simply not an option. And remember that focus assist can only tell you when you are in focus, not where you will need to be in the future to stay in focus!

It's worth a try, Blair, but my intuition is that it will be problematic. Not to mention that focus pulling combined with the DIT job is a LOT of work--you'll be running back and forth from the camera to your monitor all day long.

Probably my reservations come from the fact that while RED has many revolutionary aspects, from an optical standpoint it is identical to not only the film camera legacy but even the current crop of HD cameras (i.e. the rules have not changed), so it's hard to see why a reinvention of the science of pulling focus would be suddenly possible.

Nevertheless, it's this sort of pioneering spirit that prompted the development of RED in the first place, so I will try to keep an open mind, and remain interested to see what you come up with!
 
I've taken test rides on the Segways with the hands-free Steadicam option, and although they are mind-blowing technology, I believe that they are of relatively limited use due to the obstacles that are oft found on sets. For either the operator or the assistant to be able to safely negotiate their way around while maintaining their attention on the job at hand is a bit sketchy. For long walk-and-talks on exteriors, I think this a great tool, as well as shooting events like big stage shows or parades etc.

Interesting thought though! And why stop at the operator and AC--the boom guy would do well to have his own Segway, and the electrician carrying the roving fill-light; a set-full of Segways with anti-collision software would be something to see. When the craft service chap comes wheeling in with a tray of pigs-in-blankets, that's when we'll know the film industry has finally entered the 21st century.
 
No doubt Charles...I thought about obstacles on the set and other creative uses after my initial Segway post and then edited that thought in a minute before your post.

A set full of Segways, all dancing in choreographed unison would be good "behind the scenes" documentary fodder in itself!

Viva la technology...
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
I am wondering about putting an HVX on set in a wide, high angle lock off as a spy cam hardwired to a LCD monitor that sits adjacent to the projected image to provide perspective and make it easier to anticipate entrances and exits.
Click to expand...
It'll be a help, but you lose all of your important depth information as you're now viewing the set in 2D, of course...

You *could* try 2 HVX's and a projected polarized 3D image next to your monitor, but that's starting to get a little over-complex! Be a fun experiment though...

For me, I think I'm going to be standing pretty close to the camera for my AC work, most probably forever, but I admire your forward thinking and evolutionary spirit, Blair!
 
Outside the box

Outside the box

Charles is right, the RedOne is not directly related to my musings about a better way to pull focus. When I'm ready to test I'll post a call for interested volunteers, should be fun and I'll bring the Espresso machine :cool:

Dominic, I like the idea of two spy cams creating a 3D representation but for now I think I'll just try and get the spy cam angle as high up as I can so I get a "top view".

I love Gibby's Segway idea though I think it only makes sense for the operator. For some set-ups I think it could be brilliant.
 
Hi Blair

I pulled focus for quite a few years and I would have to say that taking the focus puller away from the camera would be a bad thing. The nuances of actors can be subtle and critical. Even if an actor hits his mark dead on and (trust me on this a lot of even big A list actors that I have worked with miss) a slight lean or move can throw out focus and these slight leans and moves often are different in every take. Also in the case of lens, filter, and camera changes a 1AC should be right there to handle it or it slows things down. Now as a shooter I often wisper directions while rolling to my 1AC and I want them right beside me. I only know of one 1st AC that always uses a FIZ he's good at his job but he still is always right beside the camera. I see no way that a 1AC could be effective away from the camera. Unless a person is working for a low budget lots of time to wait production I would also not recomend a 1AC doing a DIT position at the same time. Saving money on someone doing both positions will often cost the production a lot more in time loss and having to pay everyone else on set while the 1st/DIT runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. That can also sour a company on using a RED in the later jobs.

As far as I am concerned the focus pullers job is the most pressure filled on set and I would hate for more to be placed on them. Even though my 1st has a fair amount of down time I expect a instant response when I need him.

Productions are always looking for cost savings but rarely willing to trade savings that cause a bunch of extra time on set.
 
Great post Finner. I actually don't think there is a better way to pull focus than the one availiable right now, and would think that the reason is because it isn't necessary. Ac's do pretty good jobs pulling focus the way it is, and also manage to take care of the camera at all times and assist the cinematographer, reminding him of everything camera related (wich can get fairly confusing: filter factors, frame rates, emulsion type in the mag, etc, etc...).

I have a much more limited experienced, but have pulled focus in quite a few sets, film and video, the last 5 years and have DP'd quite another few to like the idea of a first AC by my side.

Cheers!

Finner said:
Hi Blair

I pulled focus for quite a few years and I would have to say that taking the focus puller away from the camera would be a bad thing. The nuances of actors can be subtle and critical. Even if an actor hits his mark dead on and (trust me on this a lot of even big A list actors that I have worked with miss) a slight lean or move can throw out focus and these slight leans and moves often are different in every take. Also in the case of lens, filter, and camera changes a 1AC should be right there to handle it or it slows things down. Now as a shooter I often wisper directions while rolling to my 1AC and I want them right beside me. I only know of one 1st AC that always uses a FIZ he's good at his job but he still is always right beside the camera. I see no way that a 1AC could be effective away from the camera. Unless a person is working for a low budget lots of time to wait production I would also not recomend a 1AC doing a DIT position at the same time. Saving money on someone doing both positions will often cost the production a lot more in time loss and having to pay everyone else on set while the 1st/DIT runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. That can also sour a company on using a RED in the later jobs.

As far as I am concerned the focus pullers job is the most pressure filled on set and I would hate for more to be placed on them. Even though my 1st has a fair amount of down time I expect a instant response when I need him.

Productions are always looking for cost savings but rarely willing to trade savings that cause a bunch of extra time on set.
Click to expand...
 
Not to be contrary guys, but I know of at least three A-list assistants who use the FIZ full-time and stand away from the camera to do so: Jimmy Jenson, Tony Rivetti and Baird Steptoe (a quick peek at IMDB should inform as to their experience levels). This is a relatively recent development to be sure, as all have spent many years pulling directly from the camera, but like many things in the business, techniques evolve. Certainly there is more pressure placed on AC's these days, as there tend to be less rehearsals, less time to drop marks, longer lenses and wider stops than ever before.

Personally, I find it a little disconcerting also as I can no longer whisper focus notes or advance warning of a change in the camera move during a take, nor can I reach over to the lens and crank the focus while lining up a shot with the motor engaged. But if they feel that their success ratio is improved with this style, so be it.

Finally--the guys are never far from the camera, only a few feet really, and can still manage all of the other usual duties without a noticeable delay. Having a sixth sense of everything going on at the camera is part of a top AC's job.
 
1st do no harm

1st do no harm

I have no doubt that Charles and others are accurately reporting their real world experiences of the techniques of top notch 1sts. I also get that a good 1st AC is doing a lot more than pulling focus. I also understand that on a shoot with a full crew the DIT job needs to be limited to just that. Still...

I would love to give it a try just to see if with a little practice it could be done a different way. I'm curious, so sue me :rolleyes:
 
Charles Papert said:
Not to be contrary guys, but I know of at least three A-list assistants who use the FIZ full-time and stand away from the camera to do so: Jimmy Jenson, Tony Rivetti and Baird Steptoe (a quick peek at IMDB should inform as to their experience levels). This is a relatively recent development to be sure, as all have spent many years pulling directly from the camera, but like many things in the business, techniques evolve. Certainly there is more pressure placed on AC's these days, as there tend to be less rehearsals, less time to drop marks, longer lenses and wider stops than ever before.

Personally, I find it a little disconcerting also as I can no longer whisper focus notes or advance warning of a change in the camera move during a take, nor can I reach over to the lens and crank the focus while lining up a shot with the motor engaged. But if they feel that their success ratio is improved with this style, so be it.

Finally--the guys are never far from the camera, only a few feet really, and can still manage all of the other usual duties without a noticeable delay. Having a sixth sense of everything going on at the camera is part of a top AC's job.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with remote focus controls, and a little distance, but a guy pulling focus from the video village would certainly scare the heck out of me...
 
I guess we have to wait for the first guy to pull focus from the other side over the world through internet? ;)
 
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