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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

BreakOut Box Prototype

Hmmm... That's a good question. Since I am not an owner (Yet, give me a few weeks) I have not had enough real world experience to say.

I will say this, the purpose of the item is to move the cables away from the camera, protect the dumb side, allow a breakaway situation so the camera can be taken off tripod and moved without a lot of setting up, and finally, to replace the mini plugs with more industry standard outlets for compatibility with other positions on set.

The LCD is a different animal altogether. If it were me, I would attepmt to either do both, or just the breakout without the LCD at all. In other words, if a snap-in option of th LCD were possible, so users could purchase it or not, then this would be an all-world solution.

Price will also be a serious consideration, and if the LCD really drives up costs, then I am sure people would live without it.

For me, the LCD would be an afterthought at this time, but that could change.

Jay
 
The unit will come with a cable that is approx 1 meter in length. Longer cable lenghts will also be available, as we are currently looking at cables that can be purchased "off the shelf" so that users everytwhere can find them.
The original design was to have a breakout box seperated from the camera to avoid touching the camera body. This is still a feature, however, if you wish to disconnect the breakout box and use only, lets say the Preview out and 1 mic input, then you can unplug the breakout and run with it, without having to remove the panel for access to these I/O's. Again, the mini-XLR's are off the back, not side and could be changed to full size XLR's, however there will be an increase in size of the panel. The panel size is important so that it doesn't interfere with the RED rails, and also because this design is modular. We will be releasing other products that will that will also interface with this panel.
The cost of an LCD would not drive the cost up too far. As soon as we are all set with prices, we will post them all on the products website. If there is enough interest in the breakout with the LCD, then we will proceed with it. Otherwise, it will be easy to drop.
I hope that I have answered all your questions.

Anthony
 
I/O interface

I/O interface

Our concept for a breakout box has change some since our last posting here. The further we brainstormed on which features to extend to the breakout box, (and which immediate features we would still want accessible directly at the camera) the more we realized that it would be a two-part system. The Panel (Image shown) can operate as is and gives the RED user access to most I/O’s on the camera, with the exception of two channels of audio only. The four video out connections, and the two audio inputs are full size connectors.

We will soon post an updated image of the breakout box concept on this forum. The panel will be available as a standalone purchase, or as a package with the breakout box. In the next few weeks we will be able to update you on a price, and a rough delivery date. All designs and specifications at this point are subject to change.

Here are the current features:

A- Camera Mic input (Assigned to Ch #1) switchable to front or rear input (I) also supplies phantom power.
B- RS232 (loop-thru) connector
C- Hirose 12 pin connector for ENG lenses (start/stop, power for zoom servo)
D- Pass thru channel for HDMI, USB (with protective cover not shown)
E- BNC outputs (switchable for multiple preview outputs).
(Genlock, Preview, Dual-stream 1&2)
F- (2) stereo 3.5mm outputs (operator and sound-person)
G- Timecode IN
H- Timecode OUT
I- XLR input (Ch#1)
J- XLR input (CH#2)
K- Muti-pin port for connection to the BOB4R-1 Break-out box
L- Gasket seals protect camera body connections from water, moisture, dirt and dust.

An FAQ page and a website for this product, and others will be up (hopefully) by the end of this month.
 
Currently, all the chassis components (manufactured parts) equal .400 lbs. As soon as all the connectors arrive, as well as circuit boards, we will be able to give you a more accurate measure.
 
airsealand said:
The unit will come with a cable that is approx 1 meter in length. Longer cable lenghts will also be available, as we are currently looking at cables that can be purchased "off the shelf" so that users everytwhere can find them.
Click to expand...

Not sure where you may find a cable "Off the shelf" world wide with 4x Audio (12 cores rqd), 4x Vid, HDMI, 2x USB, Time code (4 cores rqd) and what ever else you wanted to bring from the side, all pre wired to the remote box which may require an EDAC connector or high density Circular plug. That would be a rather tall order. Sounds like a custom build to me. I figure if someone actually required all those conections remotely, then yes it's a good Idea. Most I imagine would generally run 1 HDSDI cable from the camera, and possible 1 or 2 ch of audio back in, which this could also be done with a Wireless mic system.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bagging the idea, I'm trying to think outside the box "No pun intended". Most may think as one other item to worry about in case of a failure of some sort. My experience the fewer cables the camera requires, the more at ease the Camera crew.

One other thought... will it fit within the RED cage?
 
kinda makes the camera go from sexy to fugly. can you make it so it complements the camera?
 
Pana-tech said:
Not sure where you may find a cable "Off the shelf" world wide with 4x Audio (12 cores rqd), 4x Vid, HDMI, 2x USB, Time code (4 cores rqd) and what ever else you wanted to bring from the side, all pre wired to the remote box which may require an EDAC connector or high density Circular plug.
Click to expand...

...which would be big, unflexible & expensive...and probably prone to failure as well.

Personally I think smaller with fewer options for the breakout is better. Think about which cables you will actually be using for day to day shooting - USB? I don't think so.

On most feature & TVC shoots sound will be recorded externally from the camera and 'video village' monitoring will be from the HD-SDI ports, probably not even dual link.

I would be suprised to see HDMI monitoring used on any high end shoots. Also, a wireless audio link going into the on-camera mini-xlrs as a guide track would be acceptable.

A small form factor box that is hard mounted to the camera, covers the mini-BNC connectors and gives you regular BNC connectors facing out the rear of the camera will have a lot of takers....

As long as the other connectors on the camera are not opscured, you still have the option to use them as required.

EDIT:
Actually someone has already done this.... perhaps they might be willing to speak up?
 
The design (since posted yesterday) has already changed some. To address your questions above: The panel and box will not use the HDMI or USB features. As you can see from the illustration, those ports are accessed directly at the camera. This saves us thickness and weight issues in a harness. And I agree, most engineers, operators and clients will be monitoring the HD-SDI signal. As for the dual stream outputs, I personally will probably not be using them, however, in the panel (via switch) you can utilize those BNC terminals as additional preview outputs. I know when on a crane, one output is for the operators monitor, another for the client, etc. There have been several situations where 'non loop-thru' signals are requested. As for audio, I believe there was a thread posted yesterday, that was excited about the cameras audio recording features being activated. The panel will give them full size XLR connections, and access to Ch1&2.
For users of ENG type lenses, the 12 pin Hirose connector will allow them to plug in & power the lens zoom servo, and start/stop triggers. There is also a pass thru RS232 connector.
Regarding the harness. I can assure you that we have a very well respected, electronics engineer working with us on designing the circuits for this product. He is no stranger to HD (has worked on several items that I am sure most of us have used in this industry) and is currently testing multi-pin cables (bandwidth, noise, distance) for the connection between the box & panel. We are looking at a cable equivalent of a DVI cable. Since DVI will limit our audio, another cable has been found, that for our customers can purchased off the shelf.
Now, the design will shrink some, and 'yes' we certainly want it to look as 'HOT' as the RED looks. With some anodizing and cuts, it should be practical, operational, light and sleek. Once installed, the idea is to leave it on and protect the connections that are on the camera.
We are also end users of this product and really appreciate your input, suggestions, praise and concerns. Thanks to the guys at Off Hollywood for letting us play with numbers 6 & 7. It was there that this concept came to fruition.

Anthony S. Lenzo
 
Can you build in levels pots for the audio? Also, I would like all of the BNC's pointing out of the back and the audio ports on the side.

Just to be sure, the adapter that airsealand is making is different than element technica, right?
 
I'm pretty confused by this breakout box. When I think breakout box I think pony tail. Super thin, minimal space and provides the ability to tether the camera and move the connections away from the camera body.

This thing seems to make everything worse.
 
airsealand said:
With some anodizing and cuts, it should be practical, operational, light and sleek. Once installed, the idea is to leave it on and protect the connections that are on the camera.
Click to expand...

Sounds good, have you considered rubber seals for the external connections? This was one design feature I wish was included (instead of having to tape over unused connections in the field/desert environment).
 
AirSeaLand,

This is good thinking - but instead of the 3 full sized xlr's could there be a single multipin that gives the sound dept everything they want, 4 inputs and whatever outs. Nobody should be shooting 4k with cine lenses and Mixing 4 channels at once, it's a 2 person job.

They put too many cables into the damm camera! One is all they should get!

OK keep one input with a pot and +48v for RARE on camera situations, switchable to feed back into the 4 or 3+1

The lemo TC/ IN-OUT connector on the red is reasonably standard... Not sure if this is worth changing on your design.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
Matt Uhry said:
but instead of the 3 full sized xlr's could there be a single multipin that gives the sound dept everything they want, 4 inputs and whatever outs. Nobody should be shooting 4k with cine lenses and Mixing 4 channels at once, it's a 2 person job.

They put too many cables into the damm camera! One is all they should get!
Click to expand...

Might be just me - but I LOVE the ability to record 4 audio channels to the camera. My sound mixer can give me a live mix-down + independent tracks (boom, lav, etc.) and it all just rolls into the edit via QT - I will start using my sound mixers BWF as just ... back-up (or when we are running and gunning so hard we can't be teathered)
 
offhollywood said:
Might be just me - but I LOVE the ability to record 4 audio channels to the camera. My sound mixer can give me a live mix-down + independent tracks (boom, lav, etc.) and it all just rolls into the edit via QT - I will start using my sound mixers BWF as just ... back-up (or when we are running and gunning so hard we can't be teathered)
Click to expand...

It's not just you, I waited for years a 4 audio channel synch with the image and I would be sorry not to use them !
 
airsealand said:
Our concept for a breakout box has change some since our last posting here. The further we brainstormed on which features to extend to the breakout box, (and which immediate features we would still want accessible directly at the camera) the more we realized that it would be a two-part system. The Panel (Image shown) can operate as is and gives the RED user access to most I/O’s on the camera, with the exception of two channels of audio only. The four video out connections, and the two audio inputs are full size connectors.

We will soon post an updated image of the breakout box concept on this forum. The panel will be available as a standalone purchase, or as a package with the breakout box. In the next few weeks we will be able to update you on a price, and a rough delivery date. All designs and specifications at this point are subject to change.

Here are the current features:

A- Camera Mic input (Assigned to Ch #1) switchable to front or rear input (I) also supplies phantom power.
B- RS232 (loop-thru) connector
C- Hirose 12 pin connector for ENG lenses (start/stop, power for zoom servo)
D- Pass thru channel for HDMI, USB (with protective cover not shown)
E- BNC outputs (switchable for multiple preview outputs).
(Genlock, Preview, Dual-stream 1&2)
F- (2) stereo 3.5mm outputs (operator and sound-person)
G- Timecode IN
H- Timecode OUT
I- XLR input (Ch#1)
J- XLR input (CH#2)
K- Muti-pin port for connection to the BOB4R-1 Break-out box
L- Gasket seals protect camera body connections from water, moisture, dirt and dust.

An FAQ page and a website for this product, and others will be up (hopefully) by the end of this month.
Click to expand...


Please make this with industry standard full sized XLR audio input connectors and a 5-pin XLR male output. That is what sound people have on their snakes for use with most other professional cameras that record sound. We don't need a new standard resulting in snakes only usable with this camera. Mini-XLRs are a bad idea--they won't take the weight of adapters needed to adapt them from regular snake connectors. Audio return on a 3.5 mm TRS mini jack is and always has been a terrible, damage-prone idea.

Philip Perkins (CAS)
 
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