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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Bot and Dolly + RED

So you see it is not really a rocket science :) ANY kind of industrial robotics arm outperform in accuracy (it is usually INSANELY accurate), payload, and any other requirements for handling a film camera. It is just a matter of right programming for software. Maybe I can be more optimistic for the price estimation.
 
Petr Dvorak said:
Tom you already can buy old industrial robots for few thousand bucks :wink5:
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Something to note though with industrial robots is some of them have limitations in their movement ranges, or singularity points where it is hard to precisely control velocity and acceleration. I think this might be a controller issue though.


Dmitry Burenok said:
So you see it is not really a rocket science :) ANY kind of industrial robotics arm outperform in accuracy (it is usually INSANELY accurate), payload, and any other requirements for handling a film camera. It is just a matter of right programming for software. Maybe I can be more optimistic for the price estimation.
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there certainly is room for optimism on the price front. Control is really where the difficulty lies. Robot OS would be a good place to start with an industrial PC based control system.
 
daniel caruso said:
Looks amazing, and what better than to have our camera in the promo =]. A friend sent me this video, some amazing work and shots captured using the system (not sure if the exact one or similar).

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they happen to use another camera and another (self-brew) software. the arm is likely similar or same, but many modify the existing encoders and/or motors. (there have been quite a few attempts to using an industrial robot..)
 
daniel caruso said:
Looks amazing, and what better than to have our camera in the promo =]. A friend sent me this video, some amazing work and shots captured using the system (not sure if the exact one or similar).

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This system is very cool, the camera moves how you want it to, seems way better than Bot & Dolly.
 
Bumping an old thread here...is there an off-the-shelf successor to Bot & Dolly? Apparently they got bought up by Google a couple years ago:

http://www.cinematographydb.com/2015/03/6-axis-robot-moco-picking-up-where-bot-dolly-left-off/

BOT & DOLLY and AUTOFUSS (their parent company) were purchased by Google in 2013, along with several other robotics companies. So they are no longer available to filmmakers.
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I'm curious to see if we're going to see a similar revolution in free-range motion control like we did with Steadicams with the introduction of the MOVI & Nebula-style gyroscopic stabilizers (especially cost-wise, as I read that the KUKA-based robotic arm systems were priced in the neighborhood of $130k+, which isn't suitable for anything other than rentals or large budgets), particularly with the add-ons like aerial multi-rotor copters & the upcoming MIMIC system. It would be awesome to get a more portable version of the Bot & Dolly system that also supports tracks & cranes (plus tripods) in a lighter-weight package (something that could be setup by one or two people & tucked in the back of a work van would be ideal), as well as a "remember what I did" pull-along system to get more natural motion specifically where you want it, along with the regular remote control & 3D-programmable interface systems. The robotic work on movies like Gravity was just amazing & I'd love to have better access to that type of equipment. Right now it sounds like a MOVI-style turnkey solution is a pipedream (I saw some posts about DIY systems, but I'd rather focus on filmmaking than tool development personally due to time constraints), although I did see a few that came up in some quick online research:

MR MOCO

C-MOCOS

ROBO MOCO (including some neat motion bases)

So who wants to start a 7-axis CINE 3D Arm on Kickstarter? :biggrin:
 
David Twelves said:
Right now it sounds like a MOVI-style turnkey solution is a pipedream (I saw some posts about DIY systems, but I'd rather focus on filmmaking than tool development personally due to time constraints), although I did see a few that came up in some quick online research:

MR MOCO

C-MOCOS

ROBO MOCO (including some neat motion bases)

So who wants to start a 7-axis CINE 3D Arm on Kickstarter? :biggrin:
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NOT a "pipe dream". Already in the works. The robots are coming to your set sooner than you think.

There's a couple new players that will show solutions at IBC - a couple are targeting broadcast specifically - but you will see turn-key robots for camera moves at affordable prices soon. I'm following it closely - and much of the hardware required has recently dropped in price.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
NOT a "pipe dream". Already in the works. The robots are coming to your set sooner than you think.

There's a couple new players that will show solutions at IBC - a couple are targeting broadcast specifically - but you will see turn-key robots for camera moves at affordable prices soon. I'm following it closely - and much of the hardware required has recently dropped in price.
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That is great news! I would like to see a lot more "effortless" automation in this area for sure, especially with cross-communication between electronic stabilization equipment. I was watching an OK GO video from last year where they have a combination of a drone & a cart that worked together for ground-level & aerial shots and was thinking how great it would be to be able to tie those together with a robotic arm platform...precision moves from the arm, motion from an automated base or track, handoff to a MOVI or similar unit, and aerial liftoff using a copter.


That plus precision CNC stepping motors are getting remarkably affordable & it seems like you could build a reliable arm without too much effort; the catch is that you also have to integrate easy controls, data pass-through to your various NLE & 3D programs, and all the other bits & pieces that go along with it, which gets a lot more involved than buying something off the shelf, doing a day training session, and putting it to work. But it IS possible:


The speed is pretty good too, judging by a quick search on Youtube for homemade project arms:


It would be tempting to buy some aftermarket carbon fiber car wings, hack them into shape, & rig them up into a lightweight test unit with some NEMA steppers. With a small carbon Dragon & mini primes, I bet it could get down to the point where you could have a single camera/stabilization operator doing transportation, setup, and operation by themselves without needing a crew for setup. Also ran across one guy going the DIY route with 3D-printed arm structures, lots of neat options becoming available out there!
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
NOT a "pipe dream". Already in the works. The robots are coming to your set sooner than you think.

There's a couple new players that will show solutions at IBC - a couple are targeting broadcast specifically - but you will see turn-key robots for camera moves at affordable prices soon. I'm following it closely - and much of the hardware required has recently dropped in price.
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Hi Mark!

I am very, very interested in looking at these solutions for My Commercial and Feature Work. I have 2 well known Food Directors that I shoot for that would love me even more if I brought a better solution to set than what we are currently using. Also, I have a Feature in South America that will go into Principle Photography next year that requires some very unique and repeatable camera moves... Currently in Brazil working and wrapping up first week of September. Will send you an email with specifics and will be in NYC for IFP Week and would love to to see you my friend. Hope all is well and thank you for this earth shattering news.
 
What I find interesting about all of this is that decades ago, we had this when we were shooting film. We even had motion capture.
Then computer graphics was over sold to the industry, and everybody scrapped their mocos.
Now motion control is coming back with improved harmonic drive motors, etc.
I told effects houses to just replace the film cameras with the newer digital cameras, and keep shooting. Well, there would have been quite a lull between then and now.
I suppose if I went to the scrap pile and pulled enough parts to put together a camera system with newer motors and encoders, I might actually get some work for it.
 
Something was done years ago by Tait for Bon Jovi.

http://www.abb.com/cawp/seitp202/793a366b02a30f4fc12576d50058f1f5.aspx

There is quite a bit happening in the live production end of things using robots and motion control. Most of this is being done with proprietary software. There is much more to moving a bot than just programming a bunch of locations. Much goes into collision detection, acceleration/deceleration rates and above all, safety.
 
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