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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Blackmagic Mini Ursa 4.6K New Footage looks darn good.

Malik Tigrine said:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...inecamursam46k_ef_ursa_mini_4_6k_digital.html

Reviews on BHP looks very negative, do you have any news from Blackmagic about the magenta issue ?
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Huge QC problems. There are a few BMCuser members who remain in denial about all of this (it's kind of absurd to what length they go to deny there is an issue) but I think the majority know that some serious fixes need to be made. BM definitely needs to change something in their process, because reliability is paramount for professionals and this is terrible for their reputation.

It's a darn shame though, because when someone does get their hands on a good copy, it really produces great images.
 
URSA Mini 4.6K

URSA Mini 4.6K

Thus far, BM seems to be accepting the responsibility to remedy the defective product with a replacement unit. So its good there is no breach of manufacturer warranty. If issues keep recurring, may indeed point to a broader production issue.

Quite frankly, everyone has made up their mind about the camera. Either buy into the BM culture or seek a different direction. If choosing BM/URSA Mini, the camera image is the least concern.
 
If craft was out now they could buy that instead of the mini 4k, but I think the 4.6k is worth looking at.

Looks like on semiconductor has bought out the old Micron Aptina brand. So maybe whatever the issue with not using Aotuna sensors is no longer there and BM could use them on their low end cameras. The number of sensors looks depleted, so maybe things are different there, but the documents are still behind an excessive firewall, so some of the same people are likely still around. Micron must have realised they were about to get their buts handed to them as the criss licensing deal with Sony was about to run out (why Sony suddenly started oroducing low heat sensors) and got out of town before Sony's technology investment outstripped their products. They have some high pixel count high speed sensors that are uses innstill cameras but have 4k video capability at 50fps
 
M.Halsell said:
Thus far, BM seems to be accepting the responsibility to remedy the defective product with a replacement unit. So its good there is no breach of manufacturer warranty. If issues keep recurring, may indeed point to a broader production issue.

Quite frankly, everyone has made up their mind about the camera. Either buy into the BM culture or seek a different direction. If choosing BM/URSA Mini, the camera image is the least concern.
Click to expand...

This was true, but they're no longer accepting RMA's. I own one that's affected by the magenta corners issue, and when I called in, they said (and I'm paraphrasing) they don't know what's causing the problem, that they need samples from the camera and to hold on to it until their engineering dept comes up with a solution.

The last email from them I got in response to me asking how I can get a working camera now was:

Based on the correspondence & communication regarding your inquire the summary/guidance is as follows:
* Inquire regarding Magenta over the image: Resolve can adjust for color bias.
* Magenta over corners/edges: We have gathered information for our engineers, they will provide us with guidance and determination. We unfortunately do not have an ETA that we can provide.
* Understandably, if you are not happy with the camera, returning the camera to your reseller before the return window closes is an option.

It's frustrating and the customer service is terribly lacking in empathy; but the fact is they don't know why this is happening themselves, so they can't guarantee replacing the camera will help. I have a friend who RMA'd his camera and they tested it before sending it back and it still has the same issue. I don't think BMD lied to him, but I do think whatever their testing method is was flawed and they don't know how to look for the issue. We actually tested both cameras side by side along with a Canon 6D and a blackmagic pocket camera to show the issue. If anyone wants to see that (complete with raw files), it's here:

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46898

I do wish the Raven was actually comparable in price, because after this experience I would have gone that route...
 
Hopefully the corner issues are some static pattern that can be dialed down at sensor level without effecting quality too much. Otherwise the pixels levels might be too corrupted for resolve to resolve without too much quality degregation.

Has anybody been able to confirm BM's claim of it being a lens effect?
 
Wayne Morellini said:
Hopefully the corner issues are some static pattern that can be dialed down at sensor level without effecting quality too much. Otherwise the pixels levels might be too corrupted for resolve to resolve without too much quality degregation.

Has anybody been able to confirm BM's claim of it being a lens effect?
Click to expand...

I can can tell you from my own testing, and shooting anecdotally, that it's affecting my camera differently depending on the lens, focal length and possibly aperture. It's also affecting my friend's camera completely differently than my own. With that in mind, I don't think there's a blanket fix they can apply in firmware (but I hope I'm wrong).

There's a theory that there's a hardware problem at the front of the body that is letting light in and another one that it's the coating on the glass protecting the sensor, but those are just theories by smart and frustrated customers at this point.

But no, it's not a static pattern unfortunately.
 
Fahnon Bennett said:
I do wish the Raven was actually comparable in price, because after this experience I would have gone that route...
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Truth is, the Raven is comparable in price, actually way cheaper when factoring the headaches and down time. Wouldn't you rather pay a bit more and get a camera with less worry? I like the BM image but I would greatly hesitate bringing it on anything except non-professional art projects. The allure of BM is that you're getting a free lunch, but as we've seen over and over with BM, there is no free lunch.
 
Frank Glencairn said:
Actually I go down that route.

I`m shooting every BM camera (also Red and Arri) out there since years, and never had a problem
(never had a problem with Red cameras also, even in harsh environments).
Also my Ursa 4.6 doesn't have a magenta or FPN problem.



This is material from last year and early this year, including the Ursa.
At least I'm a happy camper.

Click to expand...

Nice reel Frank, I like the warm colors.
 
Ok, sounds like a light ray incidence angle issue, as it is not stable in camera between lens adjustment. alAdjust around it try old 4/3rds lens (before m43) they claimed a low incidence angle in advertising.

fahnon, could you try an experiment for me? Get a lens with the isuue, and one with litttle, and try adjusting the aperture from wide open to closed and see if that affects it, then try the zoom from widest to most narrow. See if it dissapears at narrowest aperture and zoom.

As there is no low pass filter it maybe a sensor surface structure or other filter on front of it.

Now, as far as resolve resolving the issue, you maybe able to calculate certain things, but sometimes how do you know if that color isn't part of the scene?
 
Because some people are not having troubles it could be different lenses, but also some issue in sensor manufacture, even curing the chip or heat effect, maybe cutting even. But it could well be pooling of some chemical process where the liquid has had greater or less volume to the sides marring something or in a filter thickening of layer/s.

Has anybody (that knows what they are doing and in keeping a sensor clean) tried it without IR etc filters or f'aceplate? Don't try it yourself let somebody else that is qualified try it on their own camera.
 
Wayne Morellini said:
Because some people are not having troubles it could be different lenses, but also some issue in sensor manufacture, even curing the chip or heat effect, maybe cutting even. But it could well be pooling of some chemical process where the liquid has had greater or less volume to the sides marring something or in a filter thickening of layer/s.

Has anybody (that knows what they are doing and in keeping a sensor clean) tried it without IR etc filters or f'aceplate? Don't try it yourself let somebody else that is qualified try it on their own camera.
Click to expand...

Yes, we tried with and without a Hoya IR cut. Check that link I posted a couple messages up if you want to see the DNG results. Little to know difference.

EDIT: just realized you meant removing the camera's built in filter. I'll let BMD handle that one :)
 
Gene Sung said:
Truth is, the Raven is comparable in price, actually way cheaper when factoring the headaches and down time. Wouldn't you rather pay a bit more and get a camera with less worry? I like the BM image but I would greatly hesitate bringing it on anything except non-professional art projects. The allure of BM is that you're getting a free lunch, but as we've seen over and over with BM, there is no free lunch.
Click to expand...

I hear you, Gene. I'd disagree about having seen over and over because this is my 3rd BMD camera and the first I've had issues with, but I'm really considering returning this camera and maybe grabbing a Scarlet (I'm not spending $10k on a personal camera with limited ROI).
 
I'm sick of how slow the price of cameras are coming down. If BM had released a 4.6k like 12 bit 4k p50 pocket or pov this NAB I'd be ordering it considering what else is out there. So it also unlikely we will get a 4.6k price reduction special this year, and no price pressure on craft.


Years ago I gave up
my ambitions of making a cheap cinema camera, as we were assured of a low cost Scarlet fixed, but it did not turn out. Even Axiom didn't turn up. For a pro video field image you don't need much more than a 1/2.3 inch sensor good data rate and a good lens.
 
A new cheap PRO video camera.

A new cheap PRO video camera.

I would like to ask, how many of you guys would like a under $500 quality fixed lens 4k pro video hand-held camera useful as a POV, B cinema camera, or in a shoulder rig? A hybrid fast quality liquid lens with up to 20x magnification included. Very good manual wired control features on focus, zoom, aperture, gain etc. Possibly press button auto assist and auto if available (patent licensing and pre-built functionality). 1/2.3 inch to s16 sensor.

Just sick of all this playing around in the industry.
 
Wayne Morellini said:
I would like to ask, how many of you guys would like a under $500 quality fixed lens 4k pro video hand-held camera useful as a POV, B cinema camera, or in a shoulder rig? A hybrid fast quality liquid lens with up to 20x magnification included. very good manual wired control features on focus, zoom, aperature, gain etc. Possibly press button auto assist and auto if available (patent licensing and pre built functionslity). 1/2.3 inch to s16 sensor.

Just sick of all this playing around in the industry.
Click to expand...

I'll take those specs. Can I get a least 11 stops?
 
It's late, I've got more energy, I should shut up. But waiting for others is pretty intolerable.*

There's multiple cheap ways to do it. Shopping around for somebody to make your product in their lineup is a cheap possibility. There was a place that would manufacture your custom version of their camera in the thousands. but the distribution channels of most of these brands have been decimated in the last 8 years, so people won't have places to see it and purchase it locally.*

There are phone parts and reference designs, other chip set and Linux platforms cheap and powerful. There are heaps of manufactures not in the pockets of big companies who have made it difficult for others. There is likely multiple clear eco system options outside these manufacturers, making it inevitable that something like this can happen. All we need is thousands of people on a kickstarter like crowd funding and developers.*

I was reluctant to do anything, in part because of the enormous cost to do it the way I wanted (like tens of millions territory). But realised if I did even a 720p mobile phone like device, people would be into it, and I could do something better next time and so forth. These days a 1080p device would swing it. We don't have to make the ego mistake of the big cinema camera manufacturers and axiom, we don't need to design everything out own, we can use other's work to do 90%/99% of that work and get somebody else to manufacture it. Open source developers could contribute most of the code on an alternative Linux system. Chipset manufacturers could take on a reference platform to offer to customers from a basic prototype based on their existing reference. a Linux system could be offered with basic functionality and be updated afterwards Magic Lantern style.
 
M.Halsell said:
I'll take those specs. Can I get a least 11 stops?
Click to expand...

Hopefully 13-16 stops. But those stops are not likely to be high quality stops. Just look at the HDR on Sony consumer 1/2.3 inch sensors for example. but it's pro video not pro cinema.
 
Wayne Morellini said:
Hopefully 13-16 stops. But those stops are not likely to be high quality stops. Just look at the hdr on Sony consumer 1/2.3 inch sensors for example. but it's pro video not pro cinema.
Click to expand...

That's generous, as long I don't feel like Im exposing for E6 Film, like the CION or UM4K. 11 stops with a 2 stop range is adequate. Nothing fancy, I'll buy a proof of concept unit from you, if you are serious. And while you are at, develop a 3-1 media recorder (SSD, CFast, SD).

Obviously, this discussion would need to propagate somewhere other than RedUser. Respect for the house.
 
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