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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Blackmagic Mini Ursa 4.6K New Footage looks darn good.

What is so wrong with the pocket's image compared to a mini 4k Christoffer?
 
Looks pretty good, wonder if their quality control is more reliable.
 
Wayne Morellini said:
What is so wrong with the pocket's image compared to a mini 4k Christoffer?
Click to expand...

There's nothing wrong with it. It's a great little tool especially with a speedbooster. If you know how to use it, if you know how to color correct, it's crazy for the size and for the price.
 
Bob Gundu said:
Bottom line is that they're cheaply made with zero support. Fine for hobbiests. And they'll probably showcase a new product at NAB too that they'll struggle to ship.
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Are you alleging that BM will only showcase one new product? :smiley::smiley: They like to do carpet bombing.
 
The BM DNA seems to be t move quickly and fix problems later (or not). The QC is dreadful for such a big professional outfit.
 
Heard a rumour they will announce an 8k large ursa. And canon will announce 8k c500.
 
M.Halsell said:
The BM DNA seems to be t move quickly and fix problems later (or not). The QC is dreadful for such a big professional outfit.
Click to expand...


Just so you know where I'm coming from I'm an early red adopter - Redone SN206 and have owned every generation of RED: R1, Epic-X, Epic Dragon and hopefully next week I will get my Scarlet W and will also fairly soon have an Ursa mini 4.6K.

I have said this on the other forum, so I will say it here:

snip:
"I've never really understood the lovers, haters, fanboys rivalry between these two companies - it always seemed to me they were very similar: One man, privately owned companies that were bringing technologies and price points that were/are very disruptive to the industry as a whole - more alike than different.
...

Both have made mistakes, many here may not have been around when REDONE came out with no audio, and numerous issues that took quite a while to work through. And IIRC the Epic-X delays were well beyond any of BMD's even after RED taking large deposits that we thought indicated an imminent release (it was almost a year and half after taking $5K deposits) and as mentioned earlier 3K for $3K was abandoned and BMD picked up that ball with 2.5K for $2.5K and then 4K for $3K, and now 4K for $1.3K with the micro studio."

I've actually liked some of the BMD cameras BECAUSE they were different from my RED. It is kind of cool that you can just pick up a BMD 2.5 or 4k and shoot. Built-in scratch mic, No wires, no monitors to attach, - not even a battery. Does that make it a great tool for shooting a major motion picture? - No it is what it is.

Bottom line is BMD having started later is a little behind on their development timeline, and if nothing else they will keep RED on their toes and all of us Redusers will benefit.
 
@Mr. Hastings. Your deference and long standing membership are noted. We are all just having just a good conversation between the boys.

The RED delay episodes are now historical fact and so are BMD’s for that matter. Difference being is that RED eventually sorted thru the ToDo list. The wait isn’t the killer, it’s the product value or lack of after reaching your number in the queue.

So far, the URSA Mini 4K as a 2nd generation, professional, camera is exhibiting some new and old problems leftover issues from the previous generation.

• Fixed noise pattern being the most notable and persistant
• Poor preamps
• Dropped frames
• SDI cutouts
• Random power downs
• External monitor buttons cease to work when monitor door is closed
• RF interference with wireless systems
• Low light quality has not improved

Lost credibility. Loss of income for some. It’s a very troubling situation.

Fanboy energy within context is not a bad thing, no hate. Just needs to be a payoff for that enthusiasm and patience. A sidebar: My recent trip to 34th & 9th Ave to talk with the pro video group, I was shocked at how small the queue currently is for the Ursa Mini 4.6K

At some level we are all either trying to make or keep our position on the varsity squad. So professionally, we generally closely evaluate the tools that come closest to meeting the workflow needs. ‘We all want to swim with the sharks” (couldn’t help the pun ☺).

Cheers!
 
I will be happy to test this camera when it comes out..but for now I'm shooting on red for digital capture and panavision for film..
 
Michael Hastings said:
Just so you know where I'm coming from I'm an early red adopter - Redone SN206 and have owned every generation of RED: R1, Epic-X, Epic Dragon and hopefully next week I will get my Scarlet W and will also fairly soon have an Ursa mini 4.6K.

I have said this on the other forum, so I will say it here:

snip:
"I've never really understood the lovers, haters, fanboys rivalry between these two companies - it always seemed to me they were very similar: One man, privately owned companies that were bringing technologies and price points that were/are very disruptive to the industry as a whole - more alike than different.
...

Both have made mistakes, many here may not have been around when REDONE came out with no audio, and numerous issues that took quite a while to work through. And IIRC the Epic-X delays were well beyond any of BMD's even after RED taking large deposits that we thought indicated an imminent release (it was almost a year and half after taking $5K deposits) and as mentioned earlier 3K for $3K was abandoned and BMD picked up that ball with 2.5K for $2.5K and then 4K for $3K, and now 4K for $1.3K with the micro studio."

I've actually liked some of the BMD cameras BECAUSE they were different from my RED. It is kind of cool that you can just pick up a BMD 2.5 or 4k and shoot. Built-in scratch mic, No wires, no monitors to attach, - not even a battery. Does that make it a great tool for shooting a major motion picture? - No it is what it is.

Bottom line is BMD having started later is a little behind on their development timeline, and if nothing else they will keep RED on their toes and all of us Redusers will benefit.
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100% Michael. RED have only JUST shaken the perception of delivering ambitious but somewhat buggy products way later than scheduled. I'm sure that BM will rise to the challenge and get their house in order as well, even if it takes a while longer. They're not as focused as RED so it may take a while. I love the path they're on and appreciate them bringing ambitious products at ridiculously cheap prices.
I see your points Halsell and I understand where you're coming from. BM have already solved some of the issues you're pointing out. The 2 biggest flaws with the image the cameras generate have already been taken care of with the 4.6K sensor. FNP is either dramatically reduced or eliminated altogether from what I understand. The new sensor's base ISO is 800 and you can get eminently usable results from 1600 as well. As for dropped frames those issues seem to stem from certain models of 3rd party cards. I know it's an issue but it wouldn't make sense to have cheap cameras with expensive propriety media. Even then I've had dropped frames and corrupt media from RED in the past (granted it was with CF cards and hard drives, never with Mags or Mini-Mags). You're 100% correct with the other issues going forward. I hope they fix them immediately.

We should all be cheering BM on, they have fantastic potential and as I mentioned before are putting pressure on everyone making cameras for the indie market to be more ambitious in their feature sets & value. The unfortunate truth in our industry is that even if they were shipping 100% fault free cameras tomorrow it'll still take a number of years for them to outgrow their current reputation.
 
Jiri Vrozina said:
You said it does not matter where equipment is made.I respectfully disagree.
So where is it made? Melbourne?
Click to expand...

Red, a US company builds in the US, BMD, an Australian company, build in Australia. Why is that so hard to fathom? Last time I worked there, all their hardware was designed and built in their Port Melbourne facility - along with all their software aside from Resolve and now Fusion. They buy in chips and boards from wherever (obviously Asia just like everybody else), only they don't build in Asia (like everybody else aside from RED). And yes, they do have a cinematographer on staff (and they used to have their own Alexa - but that's probably changed(-:) and they, of course, have close ties with industry people like John and others. When I ran tech at a post house in Port Melbourne they would often drop by with something to test or to borrow this and that. Again, very similar to Red.

They own a post house in Singapore and they develop Resolve there (and no doubt test it on actual productions). The other offices around the world are primarily sales and support focussed AFAIK.

I highly doubt their design and manufacture would ever move substantially from Port Melbourne as Grant is so hands-on, he'd have to spend half his life on a plane. Maybe when he buys a Fijian island near Jim...

I agree it's weird the way there's so much bad blood between Red users and BMD. Jim basically copied (and improved) Grant's early marketing and disruptive principles, the determination to remain in private hands etc. and both Jim and Jarred have spoken in the past of their admiration for BMD - QC notwithstanding I'm sure. :-)

Certainly BMD do work a step or two below Red's pricing niche. Grant's aim was always to provide tools for freelancers previously excluded by high prices. That and beating the Chinese at their own game before they even got to market.
 
I'm interested in this Shane. Somebody here said that they do.have an Asian factory, but didn't want to.disclose the location, as they were close to.the company. I wonder were the cameras are assbled and where the components are made? They can be two different places. Maybe one I'd I'm Melbourne, but to ship to most countries it would pay to Manufacture in Asia rather than Australia. So, what do they do exactly I'm Melbourne?
 
I have no up-to-date inside info Wayne, so it could be - but I just can't see Grant sending stuff overseas when he is so ... um ... How do I put this? Concerned with every aspect of his products. The guy knows where every single chip lives on every single board. I watched him instal and set up the first pick & place machine and flow oven himself. He's not an outsourcing kinda guy. Certainly he'd be buying his components in but that Port Melbourne facility is amazing.

I must add, I'm not convinced so far by their cameras. I want them to do well but so far they're just a bit too quirky for my liking. But none of that has anything to do with where they're built.
 
Shane Betts said:
Red, a US company builds in the US, BMD, an Australian company, build in Australia. Why is that so hard to fathom? Last time I worked there, all their hardware was designed and built in their Port Melbourne facility - along with all their software aside from Resolve and now Fusion. They buy in chips and boards from wherever (obviously Asia just like everybody else), only they don't build in Asia (like everybody else aside from RED). And yes, they do have a cinematographer on staff (and they used to have their own Alexa - but that's probably changed(-:) and they, of course, have close ties with industry people like John and others. When I ran tech at a post house in Port Melbourne they would often drop by with something to test or to borrow this and that. Again, very similar to Red.

They own a post house in Singapore and they develop Resolve there (and no doubt test it on actual productions). The other offices around the world are primarily sales and support focussed AFAIK.

I highly doubt their design and manufacture would ever move substantially from Port Melbourne as Grant is so hands-on, he'd have to spend half his life on a plane. Maybe when he buys a Fijian island near Jim...

I agree it's weird the way there's so much bad blood between Red users and BMD. Jim basically copied (and improved) Grant's early marketing and disruptive principles, the determination to remain in private hands etc. and both Jim and Jarred have spoken in the past of their admiration for BMD - QC notwithstanding I'm sure. :-)

Certainly BMD do work a step or two below Red's pricing niche. Grant's aim was always to provide tools for freelancers previously excluded by high prices. That and beating the Chinese at their own game before they even got to market.
Click to expand...

I agree, Why all this shit talk about BMD. I seen the test of the mini where it says 12 reasons not to buy it... and to me that can not be all true. I got 2 BMPCC and one I dropped in the marble floor. screen cracked. Can not really blame the camera. The other has been going like a champ doing it´s little 2k raw and stuff use it for behind the scenes and stuff and it amazes me how good it is with the speed boaster. Still it does not beat weapon... but hey, it cost about as much as the buttons on the side of my weapon... And all the BM stuff I bought little conerters video cards and what not lasted longer than the standards they where built for.. Sold a stack of HD capture cards just recently dont need them any more, got a little Ultra studio express... works like champ nothing to say about it etc.

I had friends that dropped frames when shooting raw on ursa but then again, what SSD´s did he use? Well lowest cost possible was the pick, possibly it had something to do with it trying to overcrank in uncompressed raw...

any ways if it was not for BMD then flame would not cost 500USD a month and I think the adobe package would be far more costly. So on the software side they for sure are rocking the boat and I can only appreciate that. They showed a for free software approach is more than doable, it´s fucking successful. Hard not to admire I think.
 
There has always been a bit of backlash against BMD's disruptive pricing and I think that fuels a lot of talk about Chinese factories. But I think I can tell this story now - about 12 years after I first worked for Grant in support. I had some dude from Hawaii chewing me out over email about how BMD was wrecking the industry by selling cheap, second rate Chinese crap to the industry when companies like Avid and Sony and Panasonic had to pay so much to manufacture their quality, custom designed stuff.

I had just come from working for Panasonic and had borrowed a D5 machine from my old boss so the guys at BMD could capture some HD footage that was actually 1920x1080 and not filled with noise and the moment the deck hit the building, the hardware guys jumped on it and started pulling things out to see the boards. They found one proprietary chip in the whole thing. Everything else was straight out of a catalogue. Got me thinking.

So I composed an email to my Hawaiian friend, pointing out that the iMac he was using to email me had a motherboard five times the size of our uncompressed HD card, plus a TFT screen, fluro illumination, a DVD burner, a modem, a network card, graphics card, wireless card, a hard drive, a keyboard, a mouse and all in a bloody big plastic housing and that it had cost him half what the Decklink he said was underpriced had. Grant wouldn't let me send it.

I have a 50" HD screen in my lounge room that cost me under a grand. Electronics just don't cost that much to make. Most of the errors are made in the design.
 
I guess it will be written on Box or Camera itself. Any URSA owners should know.
If is does not say, then it is not Made Down Under.
 
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