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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Birger Lens Mount Reservations

Thank you for your input Lauri,
those are the default positions of the gpio and it's ok, i never changed them.
I was more puzzled by the fact that, for me, on build 21, one lens (16-35II) was working properly and the other two (50L, 85L) not. A wrong aux setting would have changed the behaviour for the whole set, i assumed (better never assume anything at this point).
On build 20 all the lenses are ok. Mind that after checking the system with build 20 i upgraded again to 21 just to see that the same malfunction was still there.
Ps i'm presently fine tuning the collimation using your excel collimation sheet.
 
Stephen Williams said:
I find your earlier comment rather hard to swallow. "If you say something derogatory, I think you owe it to the community to provide some substance to back up your claims." It would appear that you were well aware of the issues.
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The issues with those lenses were brought to our attention by our customers who took the time to notify us of the problems. You've never given any feedback on the forums or through email, except to come in here and take a swipe without providing any details or explanation. If, for example, you had mentioned the 17-55mm and that it was jumpy, we would have said thank you for the information, it is a known issue, and we are working on it.

Your post did nothing to serve the community or further the knowledge contained in this thread. So I don't think it unreasonable to ask you for details when you have nothing more to say than "the other focal lengths were hopeless..."

******* EDIT IN RESPONSE TO STEPHEN WILLIAMS ******
I removed "and you don't even own the product you are whining about." As Stephen is correct that this is a user forum, and experience with a product, not ownership of a product, should be the prerequisite to posting. I otherwise stand by this post in its entirety.
 
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My 200mm 2.8L is the lens that I sent in to Birger along with my Impero, after having major issues with lag where the focus would freeze in the middle of a rack, and then suddenly jump to the end of the rack. I got them back on Saturday with the new software, tested them out, and then used them on a short feature I ACed for yesterday. I am happy to report that the 200mm 2.8L now works flawlessly!
 
Erik Widding said:
The issues with those lenses were brought to our attention by our customers who took the time to notify us of the problems. You've never given any feedback on the forums or through email, except to come in here and take a swipe without providing any details or explanation. If, for example, you had mentioned the 17-55mm and that it was jumpy, we would have said thank you for the information, it is a known issue, and we are working on it.

Your post did nothing to serve the community or further the knowledge contained in this thread, and you don't even own the product you are whining about. So I don't think it unreasonable to ask you for details when you have nothing more to say than "the other focal lengths were hopeless..."
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Hi Eric,

Having made over 2700 posts on Reduser I am amused by your comments. I am not a Birger customer, just a DOP who wanted to rent a RED with a Birger mount. Had I not thoroughly tested your product & used it on a shoot it would have been a disaster.

Only 2 lenses could be controlled properly, other primes & the 11-16 Tokina could not be controlled either.

Sounds like you have a fairly buggy & unreliable system at present not helped by your choice of Impero controller.

It's totally UNTRUE & MISLEADING to state I had nothing more to say than "the other focal lengths were hopeless..."

I wrote

" Hi Thor,

What focal lenses were you using? I tested the mount a couple of weeks ago, the 50mm lens was fantastic, the 85mm just ok, other focal lengths were hopeless.

Stephen"

Using the word 'fantastic' is fairly positive in my opinion, perhaps an apology is in order.

Best,

Stephen
 
Accusing Stephen Williams of popping onto threads and "taking swipes" is like accusing a bear of taking a sh#t in the woods. I've learned to get used to it. There is usually at least some merit to his swipes.
 
Tom L said:
Accusing Stephen Williams of popping onto threads and "taking swipes" is like accusing a bear of taking a sh#t in the woods. I've learned to get used to it. There is usually at least some merit to his swipes.
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Hi Tom,

I always thought this was a 'users' forum where users could share knowledge for the benefit of others. Having to be an 'owner' to have a valid opinion is certainly a new one for me. I personally put more weight to independent evaluations of kit.

It's the first time I have been accused of taking a swipe whilst using the word 'fantastic', imagine what I might have written if I was not impressed with the 50mm lens.

I was only trying to find out what focal lengths worked, perhaps Eric can provide a list of lens's that work along with the ones that have known issues.

Best,

Stephen

Edit There was a great post from Curt of Viewfactor 2 posts after mine (been deleted), seems like Eric is the one taking swipes in this thread.
 
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Stephen, I just couldn't pass up the bear joke. Sorry. :smile5:

I agree with you about the owner thing. Mullen doesn't own a Red, but his opinion is worth more because he's seen as even-handed.
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi Tom,
Edit There was a great post from Curt of Viewfactor 2 posts after mine (been deleted), seems like Eric is the one taking swipes in this thread.
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I posted something that I think I would regret later. I decided to delete it and resolve the matters privately like they should have to begin with. I hope that other parties involved in this would do the same in the future.
 
Stephen Williams said:
I always thought this was a 'users' forum where users could share knowledge for the benefit of others. Having to be an 'owner' to have a valid opinion is certainly a new one for me. I personally put more weight to independent evaluations of kit.
Click to expand...

This point is absolutely on target, and I have edited my post, to reflect this.

Erik Widding said:
******* EDIT IN RESPONSE TO STEPHEN WILLIAMS ******
I removed "and you don't even own the product you are whining about." As Stephen is correct that this is a user forum, and experience with a product, not ownership of a product, should be the prerequisite to posting. I otherwise stand by this post in its entirety.
Click to expand...
 
Since there are over 6,500 posts on this thread, I chose not to read them all. I just want to sum up what I understand with the system so far. Right now the birger works with a handful of lenses and that the impero, while not being readily available is also sporadic. Is this correct?
 
Michael Epple said:
Since there are over 6,500 posts on this thread, I chose not to read them all. I just want to sum up what I understand with the system so far. Right now the birger works with a handful of lenses and that the impero, while not being readily available is also sporadic. Is this correct?
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I wouldn't say that is right.

The Mount works, to a greater or lesser extent, with the bulk of the Canon EF/EF-S fleet. Within the fleet, it is suggested you stick to the higher end glass (Red band L series glass, and gold band glass). Within this subset, there is an even smaller set of lenses (17-55 Ef-S, 70-200L 2.8, some 1.2 primes off the top of my head) that can display some odd behaviour in the focus, but this appears to be understood, and even fixed in the latest FW release. I haven't been hands on with the new build so can't give definitive answer.

As for the Impero, it is available (or at least was) directly from Birger. There have been some issues, but again this seems to be understood, and may even be linked to the earlier focus issues.
 
Erik Widding said:
This point is absolutely on target, and I have edited my post, to reflect this.
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It's a shame you don't help the community by publishing a list of which lenses work.

Best,

Stephen
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi Thor,

What focal lenses were you using? I tested the mount a couple of weeks ago, the 50mm lens was fantastic, the 85mm just ok, other focal lengths were hopeless.

Stephen
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Stephen: what exactly are these "other" focal lengths? I have tested extensively the following lenses on the birger with very good results.

EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM
EF 14mm f/2.8L II USM
EF 24mm f/1.4L II USM
EF 35mm f/1.4L USM
EF 50mm f/1.2L USM
EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

No lag, jumpiness or drift. Lens markings stay true and are precise. The 85mm is one of my favorites and havn't found a focus puller yet who has complained about it.

The 70-200 has to date been acting very poorly but I havn't tried the recent update yet.

While bugs remain - I still have no lens data - I am very pleased with this solution. I recommend you to try the birger again - the canon lenses just look too good to pass up IMHO.

-noel
 
I had issues with the following:-

Canon EF L USM 24mm 1.4
Canon EF L USM 35mm 1.4
Canon EF L USM 135mm 2.00
Tokina AT-X Pro 11-16 2.8
plus some other zooms, not sure what they were. At no point did I test a 17-55mm which is known to be jumpy.

The 2 lenses that worked


Canon EF L USM 50mm 1.2
Canon EF L II USM 85mm 1.2


Best Stephen

N_Villers said:
Stephen: what exactly are these "other" focal lengths? I have tested extensively the following lenses on the birger with very good results.

EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM
EF 14mm f/2.8L II USM
EF 24mm f/1.4L II USM
EF 35mm f/1.4L USM
EF 50mm f/1.2L USM
EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

No lag, jumpiness or drift. Lens markings stay true and are precise. The 85mm is one of my favorites and havn't found a focus puller yet who has complained about it.

The 70-200 has to date been acting very poorly but I havn't tried the recent update yet.

While bugs remain - I still have no lens data - I am very pleased with this solution. I recommend you to try the birger again - the canon lenses just look too good to pass up IMHO.

-noel
Click to expand...
 
Stephen Williams said:
I had issues with the following:-

Canon EF L USM 24mm 1.4
Canon EF L USM 35mm 1.4
Click to expand...

Please email me (info at birger dot com) the name of the rental house, so that I can ensure that their system is functioning as it should. These lenses absolutely work with the current hardware and software. Something is broken.

I really do want people to experience the system in all of its glory, as I am very proud of the work that we have done, and personally think we did a fantastic job. Those that have been along for the ride understand that I bite my tongue quite a bit on this board. Lately, I have gotten bored with the abuse. I not only tolerate, but actually encourage feedback on the issues with the system, as this user feedback is what has made this system evolve into what it has become.

I think we make a great product that has at times had some quality control issues. I think we delivered the product later than we could have. I think getting the last few bugs could have happened faster than it did. I am the harshest critic this system will ever know. If the criticism from others is not supported with more information, it is not going to help make things better.

I will greatly appreciate if users of the system can post which lenses that they are currently happy with to this thread, so I can compile the list the Stephen asked for. I have been reticent to provide this list, because I am not a DP, all lenses regardless of make and price have compromises, and I have always wanted the opinions of the users to prevail over mine. Also, Canon makes (or made) over 120 different EF mount lenses, some of which I will never touch, as I will never need to. So opinions beyond mine are most important.

I think it is important that we compile this list, so users have a better opportunity to understand if what they are experiencing is a limitation of the system, or a broken component within the system (mount, camera adapter, or remote).
 
I am very interested in this system especially considering how the camera markets are going these days. It seems like Canon lenses are going to get more and more popular/viable with the 5D and upcoming FF scarlet/epics.

Are there any owners of this system, including the Impero, in Northern California? I also work often in SoCal and would love to meet up with someone so I could check it out. I'll buy the beers!
 
Ivan Cortazar said:
I do get some lag with the 35mm f/1.4 USM but I'll do further testing and post. But the 50mm 1.2 and 24 1.4 are very good.
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I would have your lens checked out because I have had no lag with the f/1.4 35mm. I remember others posting about having switched lenses of the same focal length with different results. Quality vs. economics of scale work against us in the still lens world as opposed to dedicated cine lenses but if you can find a good working one it truly is superb. I do notice up to about f/2.0 quite a bit of CA on the 35mm (the 24mm as well btw) but otherwise it performs flawlessly for me.
 
Erik Widding said:
Ken posted a major software release for the Impero (v2.0) and for the Birger Canon lens mount (v20c) today.

This version has a special mode for focus control with problem lenses (17-55/2.8, 200/2.8, 70-200.2.8). Need to hold down the "F" button to change modes. It is documented in the "Quick Notes for Impero" document posted on the above link. Also implemented are the remaining missing features for the Impero: Limit Lens (1:2 gearing); Limit Knob (2:1 gearing); proper record light functionality; wired pairing; and a couple of other miscellaneous things...
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Received repaired Imperio back today.

Upgraded to latest BEI (1.1.10), lens library (20c) & Imperio firmware (2.0) s/w & firmware stacks.

Using the 'F' for 2.5 seconds and listening for a descending tone seem to make the 17-55/2.8 behave (so far it seems stable) :001_cool:
(Reverting back to normal mode (holding F and listening for ascending tone) > lens behaves in sticky/catch fashion)

As for the 70-200/2.8 IS ... nope, I get sticky focus in the 'F-descending mode' ... (sent lens report to Birger) :thumbdown:

Marks = 5/10.

PS : will post my lens test results with all the latest Birger build ASAP.
 
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